Questions regarding the 2011 Subscription Advantage Pack

[iankids]

Hi Scott,

Whilst I am sure that those of us working in large practices will welcome the Server application to improve work sharing and probably the energy analysis tool as well, for myself in a small practice neither will add much value.

I may download them latter if I have a bit of spare time and want to play with the tools simply for interest sake.

Ian

[twiceroadsfool]

Scott- Thanks for the heads up. We, for one, are very excited by the new Revit Server features.

For the other folks- I understand theyre things that may not add value for EVERYONE, but whats the value added in posting that? Mac Computers, Womens clothing, and Horse care products dont add any value to me, but i dont go post that everytime a manufacturer of one releaes a new product?

MB- How do you want Autodesk to give you a product they dont own? IMHO it needs more R&D before itll be viable, anyway.

[iankids]

Scott- Thanks for the heads up. We, for one, are very excited by the new Revit Server features.

For the other folks- I understand theyre things that may not add value for EVERYONE, but whats the value added in posting that? Mac Computers, Womens clothing, and Horse care products dont add any value to me, but i dont go post that everytime a manufacturer of one releaes a new product?

MB- How do you want Autodesk to give you a product they dont own? IMHO it needs more R&D before itll be viable, anyway.

Aaron,

Scott asked for comments on our view of the Subscription Pack, the value is that he, and through him, the factory generally understands what their subscribers feel about the advantage packs.

Whilst I didn't put it as colorfully as Mark did, this time around the subscription pack has no value for me. last time - good value for me.


Ian

[twiceroadsfool]

Sorry. My fault, i skipped the very last line of his post. I thought it was the standard "Its been placed here for your download" post.

My bad!

[hermeytheelf]

Scott,

Thanks for the early release. I was planning on downloading the SAP's tomorrow morning but now I can do them tonight!

Wanted to point out that there was a dead link in the readme - English.htm that pointed to the Revit Server Admin Guide.
http://wikihelp.autodesk.com/Product_Help/Revit_Architecture/Revit_Server_Installation_Guide
I had to remove 'Revit_Server_Installation_Guide' from the URL to get there.

Having two different guides is a little confusing. Is the WikiHelp intended to be the primary guide that will help us set up the servers correctly or should we use the Web based help?

We were on the Quantum beta so much of the work should be done already I would think.

[twaldock]

Thanks Scott,
We are really interested in the new Revit Server extension, but it looks pretty complicated to implement, so we will take that really slowly and do a lot of testing before implementing it.

The other stuff we'd like to take on board straight away. But somehow the server and conceptual energy stuff is bundled together - so can we install the latter without the server extension (I'm kind of asking this on behalf of those who never want the server).

The readme notes are somewhat confusing about the install - again the server and energy analysis are jumbled together. The third part - Revit extensions lists one new item (Frame builder) which does not interest us much; however it refers to all the previous extensions - please tell us what they are so we can decide if we want to download & install the lot (its huge, over 300Mb). I know it would probably be listed somewhere in last years extensions, but thats a pain for each of us to search for, when one person at Autodesk could include it in the readme notes here.

Tim Waldock

[jeffh]

Hi Scott,

Whilst I am sure that those of us working in large practices will welcome the Server application to improve work sharing and probably the energy analysis tool as well, for myself in a small practice neither will add much value.

I may download them latter if I have a bit of spare time and want to play with the tools simply for interest sake.

Ian

I would encourage you to give the energy analysis tools a try. Even if you don't typically do energy analysis, this tool can allow you to compare multiple options very quickly. You can do this very early in the in the process perhaps informing some early design decisions.

[nigeld]

I have to agree with mbalsom. There is not much here for the single user. Just paid $1500 subscriptuion renewal. Still no way to purge materials from a family or project - must use the delete key one by one. How about concentrating on useful functionality for all. Siteworks functionality is way overdue.

[iankids]

I would encourage you to give the energy analysis tools a try. Even if you don't typically do energy analysis, this tool can allow you to compare multiple options very quickly. You can do this very early in the in the process perhaps informing some early design decisions.

Hi Jeff,

I probably will have a look at the energy analysis tools eventually. I am a registered Energy Rater & currently use a specific accredited software for the energy rating and analysis of the buildings I design.

I am sure it will be a useful tool for others and it will certainly be interesting for me to compare output analysis from Revit and the rating software to see how each respond to a given set of circumstances.

Cheers,

ian

[Scott D Davis]

IJust paid $1500 subscription renewal.

You just got:

Access to the latest version of the software and any additional upgrades
Full Access to Green Building Studio
Technical Support from Autodesk's product support specialists through Subscription Center
Training (e-learning, podcasts, whitepapers, videos)
Access to Autodesk University past and future recordings of classes and access to handouts.

Do you take advantage of any of these benefits?

[MikeJarosz]

I too am a little disappointed.

I heard a little rumor that the DBLink was being upgraded to 64 bit, but apparently not just yet....... The WAN server extension I had heard about from Lachmi's blog. I started a discussion (see above) and have checked with some of my RUG - NYC colleagues. I think I'll wait for v2.0

[dfriesen]

Hi nigeld
Try this little app. http://www.revitapp.com/materialstool.html
This is exactly what I mean it's the little things that obviously can be done but are not getting done. But we did get frame generator, great, for those who will use it.
Thanks for the info! Hadn't seen that one before, but have wished for that for years! :beer:

[brethomp]

Are there instructions somewhere on how to use the new Energy Analysis tool? I didn't see anything on the subscription site.

I'm looking for the function mentioned on this blog (http://autodesk-revit.blogspot.com/2010/09/revit-2011-subscription-advantage-pack.html) where you can draw custom glazing apertures.

[jeffh]

Are there instructions somewhere on how to use the new Energy Analysis tool? I didn't see anything on the subscription site.

I'm looking for the function mentioned on this blog (http://autodesk-revit.blogspot.com/2010/09/revit-2011-subscription-advantage-pack.html) where you can draw custom glazing apertures.

There is a series of video tutorials released to Autodesk.com on the CEA tools.

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/item?siteID=123112&id=15400801&linkID=9243097

The 4th video in the series covers sketching custom openings on surfaces and one other topic realted to custom form rationalization..

[rpict]

jeff, scott

is there any chance to get our hands on the doe 2.2 .inp file like described for Greenbuilding Studio in:

http://images.autodesk.com/adsk/files/revit_gbs_equest_workflow.pdf

for me it's a bit strange, that you have to work this blackboxed with an open source solver.

- where are the weather files from? what's there quality?
- what u-values are used for constructions?
- what are the HAVAC configurations are doing in detail?

-rpict

[jeffh]

jeff, scott

is there any chance to get our hands on the doe 2.2 .inp file like described for Greenbuilding Studio in:

http://images.autodesk.com/adsk/files/revit_gbs_equest_workflow.pdf

for me it's a bit strange, that you have to work this blackboxed with an open source solver.

- where are the weather files from? what's there quality?
- what u-values are used for constructions?
- what are the HAVAC configurations are doing in detail?

-rpict

Projects submitted through CEA automaticallly will show up in your Green BUilding Studio account when you log in to GBS so you can get the INP file there. You can also use the export function from within the CEA results and compare window. There you can export a PDF, gbXML, or INP file of the analysis run you have selected.

The weather files are the same files Green Building Studio uses for its analysis

The default constructions for the walls can be changed in the energy settings dialog. I don't know what the exact U values for each wall construction. In some ways the specifics of this is not important. The tool is meant as a comparison tool. Low insulation versus high insulation. Since the analysis is sent to GBS you can go there to further refine the walll constructions and run the analysis again.

The HVAC configuration you can choose again fall into the area of general settings for comparison. I am not an HVAC engineer so I really don't know what the difference between each system is.

[cj_follmer]

For the CEA, where do I set the weather stations? I can't see them on the Location map. All I can see is the location for my building. The video shows a side menu with the weather stations listed on the side. I don't have that. Is there something I need to turn on?

Our engineer was a little suspect of the the kWh value for the electrical cost. That is supposed to be determined by the location of your building, correct?

thanks,

[rpict]

Projects submitted through CEA automaticallly will show up in your Green BUilding Studio account when you log in to GBS so you can get the INP file there. You can also use the export function from within the CEA results and compare window. There you can export a PDF, gbXML, or INP file of the analysis run you have selected.

The weather files are the same files Green Building Studio uses for its analysis

The default constructions for the walls can be changed in the energy settings dialog. I don't know what the exact U values for each wall construction. In some ways the specifics of this is not important. The tool is meant as a comparison tool. Low insulation versus high insulation. Since the analysis is sent to GBS you can go there to further refine the walll constructions and run the analysis again.

The HVAC configuration you can choose again fall into the area of general settings for comparison. I am not an HVAC engineer so I really don't know what the difference between each system is.

thanks jeff

thats starting making sense to me.

so it is possible to tweak and refine the runs, and file the INP or IDF data to the HAVAC specialist.

btw: beside PDF, gbXML, or INP there is also an energy+ IDF output option.

-rpict

[jeffh]

For the CEA, where do I set the weather stations? I can't see them on the Location map. All I can see is the location for my building. The video shows a side menu with the weather stations listed on the side. I don't have that. Is there something I need to turn on?

Our engineer was a little suspect of the the kWh value for the electrical cost. That is supposed to be determined by the location of your building, correct?

thanks,

You need to be logged in to your subscription account in order for the weather stations to show up on the location map.

On the application menu (the big purple "R") go to "Licensing" and then "Autodesk Subscription Sign In". Once you log in you can go back to the location amp and select a weather station.

The kWh value for electrical cost is based on the location. Even if it is not 100% correct the important thing to remember is this tool is intended for comparison between design solutions. As long as each analysis run is using the same location, the % difference between them is what is important rather than the actual $$$$.

You are not going to want to go and tell a client this option will cost $$$$ to run for a year. You will probably want to stick to, option A is 10% better than option B. So if the kWh cost is $1 or $1000 it does not matter when comparing 2 (or more) options.

It might be a little more critical when doing some value engineering type comparisons. Comparing the cost of some energy saving system or design decision to the energy savings over the life time of the building, or ROI type calculations.

[jeffh]

so it is possible to tweak and refine the runs, and file the INP or IDF data to the HAVAC specialist.

btw: beside PDF, gbXML, or INP there is also an energy+ IDF output option.

-rpict

That is the whole idea here. The tool allows you to quickly get a baseline to compare options. Wether those options are different in massing, zoning concept, glazing percent, orientation on site, construction types, etc...All of that can be done pretty quick inside of Revit without having to go through the process of making an elaborate energy model.

Then based on that quick feedback a direction and maybe a couple of options selected to take out and do more in depth study.

I must have not looked close enough at the output options. :Oops:

[cj_follmer]

Ok thanks Jeff, I see the stations now.

thanks for the info on the export options. our engineer was very interested in the export data.

[jamesgchambers]

As I understand it, you need your Subscription credentials in order to use the CEA tools. I have them, but there are only 3 people in our office that do have these...do we need to walk around to each computer and log ourselves in?

[jamesgchambers]

Oh, and FYI - with the CEA tool: don't include "%" in your run name. It will fail.

[kyle.bernhardt]

The other stuff we'd like to take on board straight away. But somehow the server and conceptual energy stuff is bundled together - so can we install the latter without the server extension (I'm kind of asking this on behalf of those who never want the server).

The readme notes are somewhat confusing about the install - again the server and energy analysis are jumbled together.
The underlying client-side (your Revit install) functionality for both was actually installed in Web Update 2. The install from the Subscription Center enables that functionality using a similar method, this is why they are bundled. Without the server-side implementation, the Revit Server functionality is minimal on the client-side, and isn't going to hurt or add much.


- where are the weather files from? what's there quality?
The weather files come from our Climate Server. It contains over 1.4 million climate datasets. Those datasets are primarily generated from a known set of empirically measured TMY2 & single year sets across the globe, then we plug them into a meteorological model to get us down to the fine resolution you see in the Google Maps interface. Each station contains an 8760 hour climate set.


- what u-values are used for constructions?
You can find the exact values, along with other handy performance data about constructions, within the help documentation. Just hit F1 from the Conceptual Constructions dialog (see attached image).


- what are the HVAC configurations are doing in detail?
I'll try not to "dork out" on this one too much, being a mechnanical engineer myself. The "HVAC System" basically sets the method and efficiency at which the building meets it's Heating and Cooling needs. The different systems available cover a broad spectrum of the typical system types used in most buildings.

Now, before folks jump on the fact that some systems are missing, or that there isn't exact control over all of these things, I should probably go point out what the Conceptual Energy Analysis (CEA) functionality is, and is not...as Jeff has already alluded to.

We designed the CEA workflow to give architects relative comparisons between early design concepts. It is not inteded to replace the more detailed energy analysis tools on the market like eQuest, IES <VE>, DesignBuilder, Hevacomp, Trane Trace, etc.

As I understand it, you need your Subscription credentials in order to use the CEA tools. I have them, but there are only 3 people in our office that do have these...do we need to walk around to each computer and log ourselves in?
Correct. Moving forward, you might want to start generating additional Subscription accounts for your end users.

Are there instructions somewhere on how to use the new Energy Analysis tool? I didn't see anything on the subscription site.

I'm looking for the function mentioned on this blog where you can draw custom glazing apertures.This can be done by creating what's called a "Face Sub-Region" (in Revit jargon) on a Mass Form. This is a special kind of closed boundary you can sketch on Mass Form Faces, and the CEA functionality recognizes it as custom glazing.

I have a series of videos on much of this that I'll be putting up shortly. I'm actually in the midst of an extended vacation, so I'll get myself in trouble at home for doing that before I return in a week.:p

I was one of the lead Product Managers on this functionality, and would be glad to answer other questions you have on CEA.

Cheers,
Kyle

[Scott D Davis]

As I understand it, you need your Subscription credentials in order to use the CEA tools. I have them, but there are only 3 people in our office that do have these...do we need to walk around to each computer and log ourselves in?

Whoever in your office is the "named" subscription administrator (this is the person named as the account holder in the purchase agreement) can add additional subscription logins for others at your office.

[steven.88041]

Kyle;

Can you give us a hint about how to make these "Face Sub-Regions"? You can save the details for your video, but can you at least give us a one sentence summary or where to look?

[cliff collins]

This video shows how:

http://download.autodesk.com/us/revit/tutorials_2011/revit2011_custom_form_rational_1044x636.html

cheers

[jeffh]

This video shows how:

http://download.autodesk.com/us/revit/tutorials_2011/revit2011_custom_form_rational_1044x636.html

cheers

Glad to see the videos are getting some play. 8)

[twaldock]

Whoever in your office is the "named" subscription administrator (this is the person named as the account holder in the purchase agreement) can add additional subscription logins for others at your office.

Scott,
I understand that you need to control who is able to access and use subscription advantage tools - and this seems like a good method for you guys. However, for the users/BIM managers it is all getting so much harder, and complicated. First Autodesk forces us to have full time internet access just to get at the v2011 help files; then we have to watch an online video on the new features (not much fun in an open plan office with the volume down to zero); now we have to be logged in to the subscription centre to use some of the functionality! Where will it all end? I predict that at least half your subscribers will not bother with the new conceptual energy analysis features because it is all just getting too hard.

I have already decided not to bother with the extensions because it is a 360Mb download - the readme files only list one new feature (frame builder) which I'm not that interested in (no mention of the other old extension features that are presumably bundled with it). Do I need this download? Will it give me anything else that I don't already have? I don't know - maybe I'll do it tomorrow, or next week, or never?

I remember when I first switched from managing a MicroStation system (200% full-time job) to Revit, it was such a joy that administration of the system was minimal, so I could get on and use the software. But slowly the administrative part of being a Revit manager has crept up to being almost a full-time job. I don't want to be an administrator, I want to use Revit - I love it.

Scott,
I'm trying hard not to sound negative, but you really need to know that your new delivery methods are not working well for the end-users - ie. the people who recommend payment of subscriptions.

[Scott D Davis]

but you really need to know that your new delivery methods are not working well for the end-users

Thanks for your comments. I have forwarded a link of this thread off to the Factory so they are aware of the concerns.

[twaldock]

Thanks for your comments. I have forwarded a link of this thread off to the Factory so they are aware of the concerns.

Thanks Scott, I appreciate your response - its great to see that you, Jeff and Kyle are all getting involved in this thread despite the onslaught from us users. The Conceptual Energy Analysis tools are a good step forward in principle, and I really look forward to using them once I get it up and running in our office. Perhaps we can use it as a competitive advantage - those who are clever enough to implement the tool will be way ahead of the average Revit users ! Thats my positive slant on this ;)

[Tobie]

I have installed the Energy Analysis tool but can not access the feature. I can log in to Subscription centre but the same user ID and password is not accepted in Revit. Has anybody encountered this, and more importantly, found a fix.

[kyle.bernhardt]

I have installed the Energy Analysis tool but can not access the feature. I can log in to Subscription centre but the same user ID and password is not accepted in Revit. Has anybody encountered this, and more importantly, found a fix.

Tobie,
Sorry you are having an issue connect to our Single Sign-On (SSO) system. We should be able to get this resolved quickly. A quick check on that user id shows that it's associated with a an active Subscription contract, so all should be working properly here.

As a troubleshooting task, can you try using the same login credentials directly on Green Building Studio (https://gbs.autodesk.com/gbs/account.mvc/login) and report the result?

Thanks,
Kyle B

[Tobie]

Hi Kyle.
I can log on in GBS but still no luck in Revit. I have contacted Autodesk and when they use my username and password they get the same error message, so not a hardware problem at my end. Still living in hope.......just. Will post once we have fixed this, but it does not seem to be a common issue.

[micah.peterson]

Scott, or Kyle, or anyone else,

Any chance we can get a cross reference between your weather station ID number and number thats useful outside of Revit? Like the real WMO Index number?

[kyle.bernhardt]

Micah,
Unfortunately there's no way for you to do that today. But I'll give you a little background on why:


For the majority of our weather stations, there isn't a reference that's useful outside of Revit. This is because most weather datasets result from our mesoscale numerical weather prediction (NWP) model, which basically calculates the climate based upon known measured climate sets (primarily TMY2) in the area. That's how we are able to get such a tight grid of climate data globally.


Some of the datasets aren't NWP-based, but are TMY2-based. For those datasets, internally we can link them to a WBAN #, which can then be looked on NCDC website (http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/stationlocator.html). Right now, there's no way for you to do that, you only get the Autodesk Climate Server ID within Revit.


From my experience, you're the first person to ask for such an ability. I'd like to better understand what task you're looking to accomplish, so we can understand the relative priority of this against other areas.


Cheers,
Kyle B

[darrenplewis]

Continuing with the theme of weather station IDs as shown in the Location Weather and Site dialog, can someone who knows please confirm for me the difference in the numbering systems? I see 5-digit and 6-digit numbers. It was my understanding, although I don't remember from where, that the 5-digit weather station IDs are actual TMY2 locations and that the 6-digit IDs are the "virtual" weather stations extrapolated by Autodesk's mesoscale numerical weather prediction model. Is this correct?

Thanks,
Darren