Area of "Not Placed" Rooms?

[DaveP]

We've got a system for adding the "Programmed Area" for all of our Rooms.
Then we have a Calculated Value for Over/Under (Area - ProgrammedArea) and another for Variance (Area / ProgrammedArea).
This all works pretty well for comparing the Actual Areas to the building Program. I'm having a problem, though with the "Not Placed" Rooms. Their Area shows in the schedule as "Not Placed", which is OK, I guess, but I'd like to be able to report that area as 0 in the other Calculated Values. Those field just show up as blank now (see image). That means that the "Over/Under" does not report anything for a Not Placed Room instead of reporting the Programmed Area, which makes my Totals wrong.
Tried making another Calculated Value field and setting it to equal Area, but it's blank, too.

Is there any way I can get a usable number from a "Not Placed" Room?

[twiceroadsfool]

"Not Placed" is a Null value, it wont work with a formula. Its like the "half checked" default of Yes/No parameters that is NOT a yes value.

best you can do is have a schedule listing just the Not Placed, reminding you to place them. Or a conditional Formatting, although im not sure that will work either, with a null value...

[DaveP]

Pretty much what I expected, but I thought I'd ask anyway.
I tried making another Calculated Field and setting it to various thing,s but none of them worked. Here' what I tried:

Area
if (Area, Area, 0)
if (Area, Area, 0 SF)
if (Area>0,Area, 0 SF)
if (Area>0 SF,Area, 0 SF)
if (not(Area), Area, 0 SF)
if(not(Area = 0 SF), 10 SF, 0 SF)Nothing worked with Not Placed.
Most of them gave me "Inconsistent Units".
A few at least let me save the formula, but still reported blank. Nothing worked the way I wanted.

[cliff collins]

What would the area of a Not Placed Room be? Isn't it a bit arbitrary?

Can you filter the schedule to not include the Not Place Rooms?

cheers

[twiceroadsfool]

The issue is a "not placed" room still doesnt meet the criterion set forth in the Over/Under calculated values... So if you run a SEPERATE schedule that is Filtered by that criteria (we have tons of schedules that only show problem areas) they wont show up.

Specifically, if youre using an Add-in or API function to prepopulate from your Programming software, ALL of the rooms are unplaced. And ALL of those rooms should show up in such a Filtered schedule, UNTIL theyve been placed AND have the right area. Unfortunately, null values in Revit are a bit of a touchy thing. Theyre nasty.

[Ning Zhou]

strangely you can filter using Area > 0 (or Area < 0) but doesn't work in formula, bug?

[DaveP]

What would the area of a Not Placed Room be? Isn't it a bit arbitrary?

Can you filter the schedule to not include the Not Place Rooms?

cheers

Let's say our Building Program says the Programmed Area for Exam Rooms is 100 sqft (10 rooms at 100 sqft. each)
Our Revit model has five of the Rooms placed and the other 5 Not Placed.
The Schedule says the Total Area is 500sqft, but the Over/Under says everything is perfect. It should report a discrepancy of 500 sqft, but since those values are nul, they don't report.

[cliff collins]

Yes-- I see the problem.

As Aaron mentioned, it's the null value causing this.

I suppose you just need to place the rooms and have the schedule report based on placed rooms only. The not-placed rooms are floaters which are not helping or adding much value,
so it's best to get them placed properly, IMO.

Trying to get Revit to do SD/Programming work is a bit challenging. Trelligence Affinity for Revit does this task very well, and links into Revit.

cheers

[Andre Carvalho]

Dave,

I know this is dirty but couldn't you create a few rectangles by using room separation lines and add these rooms to this temporary location? Create the rectangles small enough to let you know the area of those rooms is not the right ones and has to be reviewed to meet the program (it can't be zero because I think Revit has a limit to a minimum room width - something like 11" if using room separation lines and 5" if using walls...). That said, if using walls, your rooms would have an area of approx. 0.17 SF. The schedule, not considering the decimals, would report zero for the area of the rooms.

Andre Carvalho

[cliff collins]

By the time you draw all the room sep. lines, could you not just place the rooms?

Maybe I'm missing something here.......

cheers

[Andre Carvalho]

Well, maybe I didn't get the question right. Sorry.

Andre Carvalho

[twiceroadsfool]

You cant place the room, Cliff, if there is nowhere to place it. I mean, you can put it out in space in the model, just to have it be 'not enclosed" but youll find that doesnt work either. The point is:

Rooms can get created via an API or a programming ware (like Affinity), but the rooms wont be PLACED until you... place them. But the CV's COULD still work.

i disagree with the null value thing, for areas. it makes sense for a yes or a no. but an UNPLACED room DOES have an area... An area of 0.

[DaveP]

Aaron nailed it.
We can't place the Room because we don't have anywhere to put it.
This typically occurs in late SD or early DD when we're still messing around with the design.
We DO have a 3rd party program that takes our Building Program and Imports all of the Rooms. That gets us a list of Room Names, Departments, and Programmed Areas.
Then, while we're developing the design, we place those Rooms from the list into the plan.

What I'm looking for is something that tells me "You're 2000 Square Feet under program" - meaning I probably don't have enough Rooms.

Off to the Wish List!

Oh, yeah. Not Enclosed IS different than Not Placed. Not Enclosed means there's something I need to fix to Enclose the Room and probably should report as nul. Not Placed means I haven't used that Room yet, and should report as 0.

[cliff collins]

You cant place the room, Cliff, if there is nowhere to place it. I mean, you can put it out in space in the model, just to have it be 'not enclosed" but youll find that doesnt work either. The point is:

Rooms can get created via an API or a programming ware (like Affinity), but the rooms wont be PLACED until you... place them. But the CV's COULD still work.

i disagree with the null value thing, for areas. it makes sense for a yes or a no. but an UNPLACED room DOES have an area... An area of 0.

It's called "Design"--come up with a Floor Plan, and place the Rooms where they belong.
Don't let Revit and the API drive the concept. There IS somewhere for the rooms to be "placed"--you just aren't there yet, but yet you want exact program compliance info? I'm afraid the cart is before the horse here.

( 25 years of space planning kicking in.........)

Just my 2 c worth.

[DaveP]

It's called "Design"--come up with a Floor Plan, and place the Rooms where they belong..

Dang, we were both typing a t the same time.

But "Design" is EXACTLY WHY we want to do this.
I'm trying to let Revit help us with the design and tell us how we're doing based on the original Building Program. We DO have another schedule that tells us which Rooms are yet to be placed.
But my Over/Under field can show me what's going to happen when I place those Rooms. If I've got 10 Rooms that still need to be placed and I'm already over the Program, I've got more "Design" to do. If I've got 10 Rooms to place and I've got 2000 square feet "available", I'm OK.

That Over/Under field can show me that at a glance - if it includes all the Rooms, place or not.
I don't need anything exact, and I'm not making Revit force me in to anything. Just trying to let Revit help me make intelligent design decisions.

[cliff collins]

Trelligence Affinity for Revit does exactly what you are trying to do--and links to Revit.

Trying to make Revit do what Trelligence does is going to be an uphill battle.

cheers

[cliff collins]

Here's a new tool from Ideate which is just what the OP is looking for:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVhzRTa4Zps&feature=player_embedded#!

cheers

[DaveP]

Thanks, for the link, Cliff. BIMLink looks intriguing.
However, we already have a tool (from Autodesk) that does the Room Creation from Excel thing. That's how we got into this situation. The Tool creates the Unplaced Rooms. Then, it's the Schedule having that nul value that is at the root of my problem.

[twiceroadsfool]

LOL. Dude, i dont need a definition of Design. I know what it is.

It doesnt change the fact, that if a Room isnt placed, and must be 4000 SF, youre 4000 SF too short. Its THE REASON rooms can be CREATED in a schedule, without being PLACED first. Remember when that wasnt the case?

they created it for a similar reason, and the NULL VALUE thing kills a lot of the potential.

But yeah, recommend someone go buy another tool. Next time you whine about wanted tilted walls, im going to point you to another 3D modeler, LOL.

:)

[cliff collins]

Aaron,

1. My name is not "dude".
2. I have 25 yrs design experience--Project Designer/Architect. How about you?
3. I did not imply that you don't know what design is--my comment was not aimed directly at anyone specific--but just to point out a potential serious philosophical problem in conceptual design work with Revit. My opinion, based on personal experience, is to first come up with a design concept, and then begin populating the model--not vice-versa.
4. The OP is putting the cart before the horse, expecting a software tool to mysteriously
fill in missing gaps, which need to be done first--like the layout of a floor plan. Then, place the rooms--according to the design--not the other way around. Revit has no "adjacency relationship" alogarithms to "design it for you". Floating rooms have little or no value once inside Revit, until more defined in a relationship to other spaces, walls, and architectural forms. In the hand-drawing and AutoCad days, we would place scaled rectangles of paper "rooms" onto the vellum or model space and move them around, before drawing walls or creating 3D spaces. Rooms in Revit do not work this way, because they need to be enclosed. You could begin with room separation lines, as the "other Aaron" once suggested--but even that method has its problems.
5. The other software tools I suggested work seamlessly with Revit--and make up for its
deficiencies--in its current state, Revit is just not a good Programming and Space Planning tool. Trelligence Affinity does have adjacency relationship alogarithms built in-
and is purpose built for the task of programming and space planning--and links bi-directionally with Revit. I have tested and used it sucessfully.
The Ideate tool, which I discovered today--is brand new, and shows potential for helping
Revit users in programming and space planning. I thought it was relevant to the subject and look forward to seeing if it helps in early conceptual design phases.

6. If you had a 3rd party app/plug-in for tilting walls in Revit, I'd gladly welcome a trial version, test it, then recommend purchase ( or not ) since that's my job. But you don't--so I'll keep asking for it.

cheers

[twiceroadsfool]

Aaron,

1. My name is not "dude".

It may not be. If you dont like it, youre more than welcome not to answer. :) Its certainly a friendly word, and im sure youll understand theres no "disrespect" meant. But still, if you dont want to answer, no problem. :)



2. I have 25 yrs design experience--Project Designer/Architect. How about you?


Ouch. Darn. You got me there. Youve been in the workforce longer. I guess that means you AUTOMATICALLY know more, you know, just because your older. But okay, ill bite: ive bene working in Architectural Design/Production/Construction Administration AND CAD and BIM management (not just revit, mind you... About 6 platforms total) since i was a junior in college. So yeah, not as long as you, but if you really want to get our measuring sticks and see whos is bigger, i will GLADLY put my experience and resume up against yours any day of the week.

Having SAID that, its a USELESS ego trip your on. Who CARES about your work experience or mine? That fact remains, it doesnt help the OP. But true to form, the moment someone doesnt agree with you, you go on a rant about how you know more about BIM than anyone else (LOL) and about how old you are. Yes. good. Congrats, you know... On... being older.



3. I did not imply that you don't know what design is--my comment was not aimed directly at anyone specific--but just to point out a potential serious philosophical problem in conceptual design work with Revit. My opinion, based on personal experience, is to first come up with a design concept, and then begin populating the model--not vice-versa.

Im glad thats your personal experience. Now, since were sharing, ill tell you mine:

I generate the "program" from any number of "Programs," since there is a Myriad of ways to get them in to Revit. Big deal, you life Affinity. Fine. We get it. Some people like Excel, some like Access for this, believe it or not. WHATEVER. It flat out: doesnt matter. You know what i do AFTER MY CONCEPT IS DONE? I use any number of tools, to prepopulate rooms in the model, even though no rooms are placed. They get key schedule values for plumbing fixture count calculations, occupancy use/occupant total calculations, and egress with requirement calculations... All based on area. Now, i dont care if you think its relevant in predesign, SD, or whenever. Its a PROBLEM with revit in freakin DD and CD's as well.

A ROOM that exists in the model, that ISNT PLACED, has NO AREA. Hence, it wont calculate ANY OF THE ABOVE. Thats not even factoring in Area requirements, like the OP has. PLUS: Compound that with Revits inability to include a CV in a tag, or to have a formula in a SP, and suddenly i need a CHECK SCHEDULE to outline what area/rooms are still left in unsatisfactory condition per the clients requirements (something- even in my much more limited experience- ive learned, and excelled at immensely, satisfying.

EXCEPT THE CHECK SCHEDULE WONT WORK. Because NOT PLACED doesnt mean zero, even though it means zero. See, this is the DIFFERENCE about an area parameter. A "null value" for a yes or no makes sense... Since a decision one way or the other has to be made. For an AREA though: NOT PLACED (no decision made) DOES actually equal a value: 0. Hence, it should be zero.

It doesnt matter what you think about design. It doesnt matter what you think about Affinity. It doesnt matter what you think about the cart, the horse, the guy on the horse, or the carrot in front of the horse.


4. The OP is putting the cart before the horse, expecting a software tool to mysteriously fill in missing gaps, which need to be done first--like the layout of a floor plan. Then, place the rooms--according to the design--not the other way around. Revit has no "adjacency relationship" alogarithms to "design it for you". Floating rooms have little or no value once inside Revit, until more defined in a relationship to other spaces, walls, and architectural forms. In the hand-drawing and AutoCad days, we would place scaled rectangles of paper "rooms" onto the vellum or model space and move them around, before drawing walls or creating 3D spaces. Rooms in Revit do not work this way, because they need to be enclosed. You could begin with room separation lines, as the "other Aaron" once suggested--but even that method has its problems.

Then (par for the course) you arent reading what people are writing. No one asked Revit to design squat, and no one asked "how rooms worked." We COMPLAINED that a NOT PLACED room doesnt have an Area of Zero, since that would squash a fair amount of the problems with this issue. Were not asking for a design. Were not asking for a space plan. Were not even asking for floating anything. Its pretty simple really. How much area do you have in a "waiting room" if you havent PLACED a Waiting Room? ZERO! Well ill be!


5. The other software tools I suggested work seamlessly with Revit--and make up for its
deficiencies--in its current state, Revit is just not a good Programming and Space Planning tool. Trelligence Affinity does have adjacency relationship alogarithms built in-
and is purpose built for the task of programming and space planning--and links bi-directionally with Revit. I have tested and used it sucessfully.


Says you! I say revit is a GREAT space planning tool, AND a great planning tool! If you cant get it to work well, well.... i apologize. Maybe your template and your Programming set up needs work. Dont know what else to tell you, because we love it here. And okay, so whatever... you through another app at it. I still dont see that doing ANYTHING about my (or the OP's) room areas not having a value of zero. Oh, thats right, it doesnt help that. Actually, it doesnt help anything in this post.



6. If you had a 3rd party app/plug-in for tilting walls in Revit, I'd gladly welcome a trial version, test it, then recommend purchase ( or not ) since that's my job. But you don't--so I'll keep asking for it.


You would test a 3rd party app to potentially recommend purchase, even when the MASSING tools are right there? Thats all i needed to hear.

Cheers! :)

[cliff collins]

1. I'll gladly reply--and I'd prefer if you use my name, not "dude" in the future.

2. The reason I mention my experience level is that it has been focused almost entirely
as a Project Designer--so that means I've spent a LOT of time designing projects--WAY before Revit was invented. There is a lot of value in that experience. Not just that I'm older or have logged more hours. It's not a competition. It's HOW that time has been spent. Thus my comments to try to HELP younger or less experienced users avoid problems. I NEVER have to deal with the "null" issue you keep harping on--because my workflow does not require it! I don't use a spread sheet from Excel or Access to blindly "dump" my rooms into the Revit model, without first developing a Design Concept and having a well planned idea of WHERE the rooms will go, and how they RELATE to each other, the site, and other important elements and features. This is why I commented about "Design". Don't let software dictate your process. Let your process dictate how and what software you use.

3. Trelligence Affinity works very well ( better than Revit currently does--ask anyone who has used it ) because it has purpose built tools just for Programming and Space Planning. Have you ever tried it? Or are you just bashing me for suggesting it, because you think Revit is the best programming/space planning tool? ( I find it very lacking--and I'm not surprised--because it's not designed to specifically do those tasks.)

4. I understand the OP's problem with the "null" value. But we can't magically fix it, so I have suggested another workflow which avoids the "null" problem in Revit--which is entirely avoidable. Instead of complaining about something that doesn't work, spend your time wisely and adjust your workflow to something that works better, and in the mean time aligns with a time-tested procedure for developing a good design. Not bad advice.

5. I use the Conceptual Massing tools every day--and I know very well how to create a sloped wall from a surface--but it would be much better to have a simple tool to tilt a wall
in the basic wall properties ( like the other software you mention.) But in the meantime
we use the tools available. BTW I've not brought it up for a long time--but you always come back to it, why I don't know. But I'll hold my ground and keep asking for it--and a lot of users would benefit from such a tool, not just me.

cheers

[DaveP]

Wow! This has gone a whole lot further than I expected.
Not that I want to get in this p***ing match, but now I feel the need to defend myself.
And I thought I was just asking a simple question. All I want is 0, not nul !

Since part of the argument here seems to be qualifications:
I went to school for Architecture and have worked for Architectural firms my entire career.
If you really care, that spans 32 years in the industry. Admittedly, I've been in the CAD/BIM end
of things the whole time, but I work on or closely with everyone on the Design team.

Aaron explained my issue the best (and in far more detail than I would have!)
The problem I'm having is simply that a Not Placed Room should report 0 for Area, but instead reports this unusable nul value, which causes errors in a Revit schedule. I am trying to use the tools that Revit provides AS A DESIGN AIDE. Not to "mysteriously fill in missing gaps", not to "put the cart before the horse", not to ""design it for you", but simply to HELP ME MAKE BETTER DESIGN DECISIONS.

Cliff, I wholeheartedly disagree with you when you say "Floating rooms have little or no value once inside Revit." Those Rooms contain a LOT of information. They have Names, they have Departments, they have Cost Centers. They just don't have Areas - yet.

And, I also disagree with you that a design starts by "first come up with a design concept, and then begin populating the model". We do a lot of medical work - Hospitals and clinics as well as Commercial - Offices. We don't start with a Design Concept. We start by interviewing the client and determining their needs. Then we create a Building Program. I'm sure I don't have to tell you what that is. Its bunch of Rooms - with Names, Departments, and desired Areas. In an Excel file. Sounds like you are bringing your Program into Trelligence and have Trelligence populate your model. We're trying to bring the Program from Excel into Revit and then use those Rooms to place into the plan once it's developed.

I agree that Revit is not the best Programming/SD tool. I'm trying to find some tools and develop some procedures that will help our Medical Designers use Revit to design. Perhaps Trelligence would do the job better. We had looked into it a few years ago and rejected it for other reasons.

[cliff collins]

Dave,

Fair enough. Medical projects are usually pretty "boxy" and not real exciting,
and a strictly "form follows function" approach may suffice. But I've worked on those projects and I know first hand that healthcare Owners are demanding better and more creative design solutions and the "old-school" boring hospital box may not cut it anymore.
A more artistic solution may be required, and there is a way to achieve it with digital tools.

But--To each his own--we would NEVER design a building that way.

The Rooms in Revit may have some information in them, but they "don't know where they belong" in the overall concept. You need an overall scheme or idea first, then begin placing the rooms in relationship to each other, adjacent spaces, site elements,
views, solar orientation, inter-departmental relationships and functions, etc.
So--a designer is going to have to decide on a concept, sooner or later. My point is SOONER, not later--after dropping a bunch of unenclosed rooms into an empty model.
IMO, a much better design approach is to drop the Rooms into spaces which are part of a conceptual idea. Then adjust the walls/room separation lines to conform to the program by fine tuning.

In Trelligence Affinity for Revit, you type the rooms and their properties/programmatic
requirements into a spreadsheet-like format, and then drag "blocks" or spaces onto the
screen, and begin arranging them, to scale. This is where you develop your "concept"
before starting anything in Revit. It just does it better than Revit currently can.

Once the "block diagrams" for each floor ( it works in 3D as well) are settled in Affinity you import it into Revit and it builds the walls and rooms automatically. It works bi-directionally, so that changes in either Revit or Affinity are reloaded/updated. Move a wall in Revit, and the Affinity Program info updates and let's you know whether you are "over or under" Program requirements. No need for solving Revit's "null" problem. Make a change to a space or program requirement in Affinity, import into Revit and there's your updated Revit model. Pretty slick.

I'd suggest that you and Aaron should give this a try before tossing it out. It's the best digital workflow for Programming and Space Planning I've seen yet. And it's easy to use for "designer-types" (Interiors folks, for instance) who are used to laying out floor plans and typing in program info into spreadsheets. It just improves the workflow with Revit, and helps where Revit doesn't have powerful purpose-built tools for programming and space planning.

I'm not the only one who thinks this is a good system--lots of firms are using Revit and Affinity--and staying ahead of their competitors.

cheers

[twiceroadsfool]

1. I'll gladly reply--and I'd prefer if you use my name, not "dude" in the future.


LOL, then consider me just yelling out to the general masses, when i say *dude.* :)


2. The reason I mention my experience level is that it has been focused almost entirely
as a Project Designer--so that means I've spent a LOT of time designing projects--WAY before Revit was invented. There is a lot of value in that experience. Not just that I'm older or have logged more hours. It's not a competition. It's HOW that time has been spent. Thus my comments to try to HELP younger or less experienced users avoid problems. I NEVER have to deal with the "null" issue you keep harping on--because my workflow does not require it! I don't use a spread sheet from Excel or Access to blindly "dump" my rooms into the Revit model, without first developing a Design Concept and having a well planned idea of WHERE the rooms will go, and how they RELATE to each other, the site, and other important elements and features. This is why I commented about "Design". Don't let software dictate your process. Let your process dictate how and what software you use.

Its not a matter of what your one isolated workflow requires. You you keep missing (im suggesting that youre missing it because im certain youre smart enough to understand what im saying) is that EVEN your workflow doesnt address the PROBLEM we are having! Its not a matter of WHERE you do your space planning. Allow me to BETTEr articulate the problem, mmkay?

Lets say you space plan. i dont care where you do it. You use Affinity. I use Revit. Whatever. And before you get on the horse of what software you use (irrelevant) ive used Affinity. It still doesnt address this issue. AT SOME POINT, all of the "room objects" get input in to Revit. if you wait until you manually drop the rooms in between the walls, good for you. The point is, people program and meet with clients in many different mediums. heck, we have clients who HAVE Room Data Sheets for what they want, including SF numbers, Equipment requirements, Finishes, Amount of day light per area, etc. What were talking about, is not manually re-entering all of this data. So we use an app, or a program (if you prefer Affinity) to input them as Unplaced Rooms. Then, as the design matures, we PLACE the rooms, instead of placing NEW ROOMS.

It DOESNT MATTER. The problem remains that some calcuations for things that are going to end up ON OUR DOCUMENTS, are based on SF numbers. And not placed has a null value, hence nothing works. These valvulations- again, to make sure you caught it- need to be in the documentation. So its NOT just a pgoramming thing. It would suit a LOT of people better, if NOT PLACED had an Area of 0. UNENCLOSED, im on the fence about. But NOT PLACED is an easy one.



3. Trelligence Affinity works very well ( better than Revit currently does--ask anyone who has used it ) because it has purpose built tools just for Programming and Space Planning. Have you ever tried it? Or are you just bashing me for suggesting it, because you think Revit is the best programming/space planning tool? ( I find it very lacking--and I'm not surprised--because it's not designed to specifically do those tasks.)

Completely an Opinion. I have used it. im not even knocking the tool. Its a preference. I have used it, yes, i really have. Shocking! What youre MISSING, is that im not harping against Affinity at all. It just doesnt solve ANYTHING that were discussing. Youre doing what you always do: Saying "I dont have that problem, or i wouldnt do it that way, so everyone elses way must suck!"

All i can say is, maybe you dont leverage the pwoer of your Room objects as much as everyone else doing "real BIM" if the Not Placed rooms having a Null Value doesnt bother you. <shrug>



4. I understand the OP's problem with the "null" value. But we can't magically fix it, so I have suggested another workflow which avoids the "null" problem in Revit--which is entirely avoidable. Instead of complaining about something that doesn't work, spend your time wisely and adjust your workflow to something that works better, and in the mean time aligns with a time-tested procedure for developing a good design. Not bad advice.
No, you havent. Later on, those rooms STILL end up in Revit, and they STILL might not BE PLACED. Not placed = null value. Problem persists. Failboat, party of one.



5. I use the Conceptual Massing tools every day--and I know very well how to create a sloped wall from a surface--but it would be much better to have a simple tool to tilt a wall
in the basic wall properties ( like the other software you mention.) But in the meantime
we use the tools available. BTW I've not brought it up for a long time--but you always come back to it, why I don't know. But I'll hold my ground and keep asking for it--and a lot of users would benefit from such a tool, not just me.

Im doing it to prove a point. Kind of like you went around to EVERY thread for two weeks mentioning Aarons (the other ones) Kool Aid reference, and then telling people to search for the thread.

The point IM making... Is i have a workflow for tilted walls, that doesnt require me to have a new feature in Revit. Its called conceptual massing. Thats my workflow. You dont accept it as a solution. Does that mean im right and youre wrong? nope. Does it mean youre right and im wrong? nope. In EXACTLY the same manner, your solution addresses "A" problem, but not "THE" problem were having. hence, its NOT a solution.

Cheers. :)

[DaveP]

Medical projects are usually pretty "boxy" and not real exciting,
I think our designers would beg to differ (see images)
But that's one reason we didn't go with Trelligence when we looked at it a couple of years ago.
It appeared to be great at "boxy", but our Designers and Medical Planners like curves and angles.
I will plan on giving it another look. Googled around a bit and found the price is in the $2000 neighborhood. I'm reluctant to buy yet another piece of software, but if it does the job better, that's what matters.

[jsteinhauer]

To the masses, I think I'm hijacking this thread.

This thread went some strange places, and I'm reluctant to dredge up bad feelings between posters. But I'm looking for a way (software/strategy) to pre-populate a Revit model's room schedule with rooms/information. My firm does a lot of different types of buildings (healthcare-offices-manufacturing-laboratories). Many years ago, we created a tool to help us develop building programs, not only for initial construction, but also into the future. This tool can export a .csv file, which I am hoping to import into Revit.

I have used Ideate - BIM Link for exporting room schedules, but I find it's mildly limited because of 'Phases'. Currently, I have to generate a schedule per milestone (Phase) with BIM Link and export them out separately. I can then quickly in Excel fill in typical fields (Department, Programmed Area, Room Function, Utilization, Condition) in each schedule, to make them match for each 'Phase', re-import them and be mildly happy with the effort it took. But, what I have found is that I need to have rooms in the model per phase, and that BIM Link will not generate rooms for me.

Now in reading what actually added value to the community, there was mention of several software packages (Trelligence Affinity, Excel or Access) people are using to link Revit with another database software. DaveP hinted at an AutoDesk product but never mentioned a name (Could I get that DaveP?). I'm of the opinion that programming can be done in or out of Revit, whatever is going to increase productivity. But, I don't want to spend hours or days generating polylines & hatches in CAD to show my client Room Function Plans, or Department Adjacency Diagrams. I'd rather let Revit & Rooms do this for me with color schemes based on the room's properties. In the same breath, I don't want to manually enter data twice, taking a chance I screwed something up along the way.

Additionally, we're currently working in 2012 & 2013. Below is a link to another thread I started about this topic. Any help on this subject would be appreciated.

Thank you,
Jeff S.

http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?120371-Using-and-external-database-to-generate-room-list&highlight=Room+List

[DaveP]

No problem, Jeff.
That was an "interesting" discussion, wasn't it?
The tool we bought a few years ago was called the Autodesk Data Transfer Tool (ADTT) from the Autodesk Consulting Group. To be honest, I'm not even sure that have that group any more. I know at least one person was downsized from it.
The ADTT is more or less a glorified version of RDBLink with a nicer UI. It works pretty much like BIMLink. It's probably not going to help you, though. In fact, we're looking into replacing it with BIMLink, which has a few more features we need (for example, Key Schedules) And, it doesn't do anything better with Phases than BIMLink does.
We're also (still) looking at Trelligence.

Good luck.

[MikeJarosz]

By the time you draw all the room sep. lines, could you not just place the rooms?

Maybe I'm missing something here.......

cheers

I understand the problem, and I think I understand why it's an issue.

If the project is big, and includes interior fitout, there will be many, many little rooms. It's great to issue a space report at the end of design, when everything is sorted out and in place. However, there are those 25%, 50% and 75% issues that cause a problem. 'Room not placed' becomes an issue when the layout is not complete, but must be issued for progress review (and progress payment!) Reports that call attention to the incomplete status of a project are not very helpful when you're trying to get paid and the Solibri checker is issuing one whole page for every single program deficiency it finds!!!!!