Flow - Is this a Family, Connector or Revit Issue??? (Revit MEP 2011)

[David-Allan]

Howzit,


I've been trying to create a a good few Ventilation Systems in a 2 floored building with a self made Axial Fan. >sigh< If the Grilles' connectors at the receiving end need to be set to IN and the Diffusers connectors at the giving end need to set to "IN" what then do I do with the Motors Inlet and Outlet!?

Perhaps it's my Fan Family that's been created incorrectly?

I've tried a few things out and have gotten it to function but I'm just mainly unsure if it's correct, perhaps I've gone about it the wrong way?

I've attached the Motor I've drawn, one of the many systems (Supply) in my my project and a pdf of the solution I came up with...

Please read, comment or do whatever you need to, to help explain to me how or why this is happening?

Good Luck!!!

[Steve_Stafford]

Based on your PDF layout (example file attached):

Exhaust Air Terminal


Air Terminal Category
Flow Configuration = Preset
Flow Direction = OUT
System Type = Exhaust Air

Exhaust Fan
Category: Mechanical Equipment
Connector 1


(air terminal connector side of fan)
Flow Configuration = Calculated
Flow Direction = IN
System Type = Exhaust Air

Connector 2


(exhaust grill connector side of fan)
Flow Configuration = Preset
Flow Direction = OUT
System Type = Exhaust Air

Exhaust Grill


Category: Mechanical Equipment (important change!)
Flow Configuration = Calculated
Flow Direction = IN
System Type = Exhaust Air


It is important to establish a child > parent relationship between elements. The air terminals are children of the fan (one side). The fan parent (to see the child air flow) is set to Calculated and the children are assigned to Preset. You assign a air flow value at the children and the parent adds up the total air flow. The relationship between the fan (exhaust grill side) is the child to the exhaust grill parent. Parents are required to be Mechanical Equipment so the exhaust grill family can't be chosen as the "equipment" unless it is assigned to that category.

[David-Allan]

Hi Mr Stafford!!


Wow, thank you so much for your quick response and advice. I didn't think of changing the Grill to mechanical equipment and then making that the parent and then the Fans first connector it's child. Still wondering why you've changed it around to Exhaust but either way, now I've got the Exhaust side sorted.
Ummmmm, bit of a problem still, I've assumed that I basically just had to reverse the connectors (IN's to OUT's and vice versa) and change the system from Exhaust to Supply Air. Everything's gone well(ish) and I now understand the point of "preset" and "calculated" much better, thanks but Revit's not seeing the Supply Fans "connector 1" which has been set to "calculated" and OUT. After creating the 2 systems and running a duct systems check Revit gives me this message:

"Mechanical Supply Air 1: It is not possible to calculate the flow since all the components in this system have the flow configuration set to Preset or System. At least one component is required to have the flow configuration set to Calculated."

Now I'm really confused, there is a Calculated component but Revit is not seeing it. Have I gone about this the wrong way?

Here's how my Supply system's set up:

Supply Air Terminal

Air Terminal Category
Flow Configuration = Preset
Flow Direction = IN
System Type = Supply Air

Supply Fan
Category: Mechanical Equipment
Connector 1

(air terminal connector side of fan)
Flow Configuration = Calculated
Flow Direction = OUT
System Type = Supply Air

Connector 2

(exhaust grill connector side of fan)
Flow Configuration = Preset
Flow Direction = IN
System Type = Supply Air

Exhaust Grill

Category: Mechanical Equipment
Flow Configuration = Calculated
Flow Direction = OUT
System Type = Supply Air


PLEASE help!!!! I'm so close... (I've included the changed system for your eyes and comments)

[Steve_Stafford]

Looks fine. I changed everything to exhaust because you wrote ventilation system in your post and my mind jumped to "exhaust".

I neglected to mention that I changed the fan family. The two connectors are linked. This makes Revit think that the flow won't work. You need to open the family, select one of the connectors, click Remove Link. Load it back into your project. If there are still errors, use the System Browser to delete the two Supply Systems. Re-establish their systems. I find also that when I get a message about "not well connected" that recreating the systems will fix things.

Linking connectors is intended for fittings, not equipment (usually).

[David-Allan]

Ah ha!!

Good Morning Mr Stafford,

Thanks again for all your help sir, my system's woking perfectly and it actually makes sense! Linked connectors... jeepers, it's always the little, over looked things. I've been linking connectors since I can remember but now with this very important bit of information my Fan families will be functioning much better!!

If anything, I would like to know if you could perhaps guide or direct me to a "Revit HVAC Systems Creation" website or anything pertaining to HVAC design, tips or tricks but mostly tutorials on Split Systems and or heating and cooling calculations and how to apply them. I've been searching my donkey off for months now and am just not finding the correct sites. Please bear in mind that I'm a self taught Reviteer and in South Africa our offered classes are USELESS!


Please?

[Steve_Stafford]

Are you familiar with the blogs dedicated to Revit MEP? These are the ones I'm familiar with so far:

Inside the System (http://inside-the-system.typepad.com/) (Autodesk)
BIM Works (http://bimworksinc.blogspot.com/)
Duct Duct Pipe (http://ductductpipe.blogspot.com/) (William Wright)
MEP BIM Guru (http://mep-bim-guru.blogspot.com/) (Phil Pleiss)
MEP CAD Engineer (http://mep-cad.blogspot.com/) (David Butts)
Open Revit (http://openrevit.com/)
Revit Anarchy (http://revitanarchy.blogspot.com/) (Brian)
Revit Garage (http://revitgarage.blogspot.com/) (Jason)
Revit MEP (http://sites.google.com/site/autodeskrevitmep/Home) (googlesite)
Revit MEP (http://revitmep.blogspot.com/) (Scott Brisk)
Ross Baruzinni (http://revit.rossbar.com/) (Ken & Derek)
The BIM Bulletin (http://revitmepautocadmep.blogspot.com/) (Jill Bernhardt)

Check out Inside the System first, Kyle Bernhardt and others have contributed numerous topics and videos.

Books:
The Paul Aubin Academy Master Series: Revit MEP 2011 - Delmar/cengage
Mastering Autodesk Revit MEP 2011 - Wiley/Sybex

Both have something to offer the self-paced/taught student.

[David-Allan]

BRILLIANT!!!

Gooood morning Mr. Stafford!!

Ah man, JUST what I was looking for! thank you so much for taking the time to help! I will be checking out all those sites today.

Thanks again!! I'm really glad I joined AUGI, this group has been such a help already! Know that I will be recommending AUGI to a lot more people!!

Have a great day!!!

[daniel.morrison]

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Books:
The Paul Aubin Academy Master Series: Revit MEP 2011 - Delmar/cengage
Mastering Autodesk Revit MEP 2011 - Wiley/Sybex

Both have something to offer the self-paced/taught student.

Just want to add another book in here:

Revit 2010
Family Standards and Best Practices

By Shawn Zirbes

Has an excellent chapter on connectors that explains the how and why of connector types etc.

[David-Allan]

Gooooood Morning!!!

Hey thanks a lot for the efforts Daniel, I will be looking into that as soon as I can, although the book you recommended's used for Revit MEP 2010 and I'm using 2011 but I'll still be checking it out!!

Thanks again!!!!