Coordinating Door Openings

[ronsarlo]

Background
I work in a multi-disicpline office. The general mandate is we want to move into 100% revit, but it's not quite that easy.
There is a bit of a gap in Revit skills, some of the stronger users are trying very hard not to let us slip back into CAD.
We also have project managers that are quite happy to pull the plug on Revit if there are any bumps along the way.
The stronger users are also overloaded with project work and don't have enough time with R&D, myself included.

We have Arch, Struct, Mech and Elec all in 1 office, so we should be able to leverage Revit for a lot more cross communication.


The Issue
My attempt is to somehow better coordinate openings in a structural wall.
By using the "rough width" and "rough height" parameters in the door family.
I believe that by using the "door" family instead of "wall opening" tool, we are able to better keep things more modular.
Perhaps have them match up, align easier, and perhaps even schedule them so we can have a side-by-side comparison to use as a coordination checking tool.

I was hoping you guys might be able to help me out with this?
Perhaps you've even pulled this off already?

thanks!

[scowsert]

How are you working your models? One shared model across the disciplines or each discipline with its own model?

[dhurtubise]

Im a little confused with the issue. By default doors wont show in RST so all you get is the opening. So you dont need any extra effrot to get that.

[m20roxxers]

Wall Openings are bad and perform very poorly in copy/monitor. Especially on Arc walls. Families allow 2 things, firstly easy manipulation and control updating of all items based on type size.

Second create schedules to co-ordinate the number of doors/windows in arch vs doors windows in Revit and check - much easier then using the copy/monitor tools.

Would love for a tool to do this, be nice if autodesk reconnected this based on width and height and allows us to put families in.

At the moment we do it manual depending on complexity of the wall.

[scowsert]

Im a little confused with the issue. By default doors wont show in RST so all you get is the opening. So you dont need any extra effrot to get that.

Hence my question. I'm assuming he's using copy/monitor.

[G_J]

You can use a Structural Door, this will provide a void in a structural wall and also show the X in elevation views. I find it much easier to work this way when coordinating door openings, rather than C/M the Architects opening (which provides an incorrect opening in the Structure anyway) it is also much easier to manipulate than the 'wall opening' tool, which I find painful...!

The family is attached, it is an OOTB family with Revit Structure.

As for the coordination process, I follow a manual procedure of adding each door opening to suit the architects requirements.

I insist on all projects that a Structural wall is modelled in the Structural model only, and views in the Arch model via the linked file, with the use of view templates, etc..

This way, if the Architect wants to move a wall opening, or change a wall opening (in a structural wall) he / she has to pick up the phone and request this be done in the structural model.

[scowsert]

I insist on all projects that a Structural wall is modelled in the Structural model only, and views in the Arch model via the linked file, with the use of view templates, etc..

This way, if the Architect wants to move a wall opening, or change a wall opening (in a structural wall) he / she has to pick up the phone and request this be done in the structural model.

So in their model they are modeling just the veneer (sheetrock, brick, paint etc). Then what, they put their door into this thin wall?

[dhurtubise]

Wall Openings are bad and perform very poorly in copy/monitor
Can you clarify that because it's been working really well for me. One thing though is that the door families the arch uses are built using str in mind ;)

[scowsert]

Can you clarify that because it's been working really well for me. One thing though is that the door families the arch uses are built using str in mind ;)

I can't comment on the performance part but if you use copy/monitor on a wall it brings across the wall with the opening the same size of the entire door family. Ie... the opening includes the trim, or shutters or.... You then have to go back and adjust the size. I prefer to work with the door opening family linked to earlier. It can be adjusted, has the X for an elevation.

Now will they fix this copy/monitor bug in 2012? I highly doubt it. Its been around for a long time. I don't think they care.

I'd love to hear back on the performance aspect of an opening vs door family.

[G_J]

So in their model they are modeling just the veneer (sheetrock, brick, paint etc). Then what, they put their door into this thin wall?

Correct, or maybe they have a 'dummy' wall, but never model structural elements

[dhurtubise]

Iit brings across the wall with the opening the same size of the entire door family. Ie... the opening includes the trim, or shutters or....
Thats easy to coordinate with the architect when you start the project.

[ronsarlo]

Yeah.

In the scenarios were I've worked, the Arch and Structural models are linked.
I always push the "no duplication of modelling" thing as well.
If they are a smart and cooperative architectural group, they don't try to model our walls.
Since our Arch group is in-house, they model cladding and veneer on a Struct wall.

We've been using the dummy wall too, that way, if they move a wall, we can just follow that dummy wall. And if we move the wall, they can align the wall to bring the door back into embedment.


The thing is I haven't been using copy/monitor, because it doesn't seem to behave correctly. I just assumed there would be a way I would be able to monitor a door family from arch with my door family (struct and opening only).

I think this is still one of smaller items that should be a non-issue by now.

Please keep this discussion flowing, if nothing else, It'd be nice to get some sort of decent work-around here.

[scowsert]

So how does a dummy wall work?

My structural wall = the core only. I'm not going to model the sheet rock/veneer/siding/paint/trim etc...

The arch is going to need something to put their door into. My first assumption is it would be just veneer but it sounds like the 'dummy' wall is a full fledged wall. So is it then filtered out? You can't just filter out the core so that must not be it. My assumption then is that they go ahead and show their full wall. At which point I have to ask, Whats so dummy about it? It sounds like both of you are modeling the same wall.

I'd love to not have duplicates but just don't see how that's possible with what we have on hand today.

[ronsarlo]

When I say dummy wall, it's just a small piece of wall for them to nest their door family into. Just for illustration purposes, let's say this wall runs North-South.
Their job is to keep the dummy wall (thus the door) aligned East-West to where I place the Structural wall. In their model, their "dummy" wall does not display, it is on a hidden workset.

The base, top, start and stop of the wall as well as any openings are controlled within Structural.

What I've been hoping to get out of this thread is if there is a better way to coordinate the rough opening size between the Arch door and Struct door.
Because for the most part, a simple align command will keep this door aligned in the North-South location along my wall.