An angle should not be a lot to ask

[David]

I have been trying for far too much time (without sucess) to create a window family with a parameterized slope.

The rectangular 3-lite picture window works just fine. But when I try to convert to the sloped version I get:

circular references,
invalid instances,
and more Revitesque alibis.

I have tried:
to align the ref plane to the wall cut, and the reverse
locking all, locking little. I'm stumped.

This would be a great opportunity for a discussion of references
How to anchor a point to a line?

I would be able to get by if I could just get a 22 degree slope of variable hght and width.

Thanks ahead for the help.

[beegee]

Havn't had time to open your file, but , have you looked at the adjustable swing door family ? Might have some pointers for setting up your angles.

[hand471037]

What needs to slope? the glass? The entire window? I just made a wall-hosted canopy fam for a project that has a variable slope, width, and depth; so I might be able to help you out if you can give a little more info as to what you need.

Major tips:
- Don't try to make a family that is parametric one way into something else. It's easier to start fresh sometimes.
- Set up your reference planes first, and make certain that they move the way you expect when perimeters are adjusted, prior to making ANY solids.
- Sweeps are so much more forgiving than any of the other solids in terms of parametrics.

I made the canopy this way: You can lock the sweep line to a ref. plane that's set to change it's angle parametrically; then make a dim string adjust the length of the sweep line parametrically, and then when you draw the sweep profile you can lock that to your ref plains for the width....

[mlgatzke]

Doer,

I've used parametric angles in Revit for a while now - with few problems. If you understand that you need to block out the object with Reference Planes and "stress" the RefPlanes first, then you can add the modeling afterward. Sure, there are limitations and problems; but what software doesn't have them?

Give yourself some more time. You may be expecting too much mastery in too short a period of time.

[Steve_Stafford]

It is important to know that reference planes can not be used to "properly" constrain angles at this time, neither can grid lines. A reference plane has no end point technically so while you can change the angle between them parametrically you can not lock the center of rotation. If you try it you will see your ref lines change the angle as expected but also where they intersect and this is undesireable.

You need to use invisible symbolic lines to lock angular dimensions.

[Martin P]

I have found the same thing, angles do make revit fall over sometimes in family creation and sometimes you just need them I understand your frustration - you are absoloutely right angles should not present any more problems that a vertical or horizontal, but they do! the rest of us have just got used to it by now :wink:

You will find it very useful to look at the parametric trusses tutorial, they use model lines to lock to instead of ref planes as the lines will flex properly with angles - it does work to a point, but you may find that your families cant be made too smart (ie parametric) it is sometimes easier to try and make them without too many paramters when things get comlicated. It would probably help if you constructed the window from loaded components too, this way you can concentrate on one part at at a time and be sure it works.

[Wes Macaulay]

Invisible symbolic lines are a good choice for setting up parametric angles because they will be unseen when the family is imported. I've had very little problems using this method.

[Steven Campbell]

Invisible symbolic lines are a good choice for setting up parametric angles because they will be unseen when the family is imported. I've had very little problems using this method.
Wes is correct. Use an invisible line for the slope, then an angle dimension. Work all angle model elements from the invisible line. Build it up slowly and test the angle adjustment at every step.

Nothing worse then trying to fix a family that broke 10 steps deep.

______________________
Steven Campbell
AutoDesk Revit

[David]

Here is what I learned in Zoog School today. After the consensus discussion pointing to symbolic lines, I tried to rework my errant window (submitted earlier). The symbolic lines worked immediately. That is if you remember to snap the "hinge" end correctly. But I could not re-align the 2 extrusions: frame, and glass. Sooo, I started with a new window template. Also with symb. lines, you can trim to get a point on 2 lines. It all seems so obvious.

In ext view, I drew a sym. line starting at a corner of the window cut, dimtioned and named it slope angle. Inside the window cut, I aligned the top edge to the sym. line. great-- all the flex I need.

Inside the sketch, I aligned to the symb. lines (outside). some lines would not flex--"circular ref". Inside the sketch, I tried to align a line and for the first time I got an idea of how to deal with a "circular reference"----it is one of the locks! seems obvious, (after you have seen it twelve hundred time, or so).

It seems that when you sketch a line over a ref or symb line, it does not always lock??!! That's the only way I can explain the inconsistency locking. After creating these simple extrusions many times, I have developed consistency and still I have mystery locks or constrint failure.

In the attached zip file are two families. the window cut file is just the wall opening with the symbolic line as alignment -- works like a brand new razor. the other is a file that has a couple of under or over constraint.

Further along, now, thanks to your help I hope someone can figure the remaining failure with the family.

[Steve_Stafford]

I tend to sketch solids away from any reference lines in the general shape and then stretch them to the reference planes, I always get the lock symbol this way and it is easy to Lock em down!