Best Clash Sets? (for architect in CD's)

[wcurrin]

I am an architect working on the Construction Documents of a large high school and I have been charged with running the Navisworks clash tests for the project I am working on. We are, as always, looking to deliver a well coordinated model that should make construction as easy as possible for GC and subcontractors and the owner. It is our hope that Navisworks can help us get to the next level of this kind of CD delivery ("clash free" has been put up as our goal). With this forum and the Autodesk training book, I have managed to get semi-functional in producing output that works for us and our consultants.

The model I am working on is composed of four linked models: architecture, structure, mechanical and electrical (as one), and plumbing. What I have done for clash detection thus far has been to isolate all of the steel in the project and run it against the ductwork (effectively running the MECH. v. STRUCT). (By the way, I do this by opening each model in revit, and then hide everything I do not want to test then save the files as NWDs-- there may be other ways to do this, but this is the quickest and easiest way I have found to do it). This MECH. v. STRUCT is always the first thing I have looked to coordinate in a pre-Navisworks world.

What are other data sets that people find useful in isolating and then running? ARCH (ceilings) vs. MECH (ductwork)? (I am not sure if this is worth doing since my understanding was that REVIT MEP will not attach diffusers unless they will actually fit-- I'm aware I could be wrong about this). Our MEP is not designing the sprinkler pipe per se, but they are designing a zone where the sprinkler pipe will go. So, would others here run SPRINK PIPE v. STRUCT.? Also, ELEC (conduit) vs. STRUCT? PLUMBING (pipes) vs. STRUCT.

Also, our MEP engineers are very good, but I don't think they have Navisworks Manage. If I am to run there models against each other, what aspect should I check? (Hey, I am an architect and have a reasonable handle on what MEP issues might be, but not as much as engineers and other specialists out there.)

Any thoughts on this would be very apprciated?

[wcurrin]

So my short answer of this question is:

What sets of info should I be running against each other?

[pauljordan]

So my short answer of this question is:

What sets of info should I be running against each other?

Anything that will clash..
Here's what I have in a rather large processing center:

Arch VS Struc
Elec VS Elec
Elec VS Arch
Elec VS Struc
Elec VS I&C
Elec VS LSS
Elec VS Plumb
Elec VS Process
Elec VS Struc
Elec VS Telecom
Fire Pro VS Arch
Fire Pro VS Elec
Fire Pro VS I&C
Fire Pro VS LSS
Fire Pro VS Mech
Fire Pro VS Plumb
Fire Pro VS Process
Fire Pro VS Strucl
Fire Pro VS Telecom
Floors VS Disciplines
I&C VS Arch
I&C VS I&C
I&C VS Struc
I&C VS Arch
LSS VS Arch
LSS VS I&C
LSS VS Struc
Mech VS Arch
Mech VS Elec
Mech VS I&C
Mech VS LSS
Mech VS Mech
Mech VS Plumb
Mech VS Process
Mech VS Struc
Mech VS Telecom
Plumb VS Arch
Plumb VS I&C
Plumb VS LSS
Plumb VS Plumb
Plumb VS Struc
Plumb VS Telecom
Process VS I&C
Process VS LSS
Process VS Plumb
Process VS Process
Process VS Telecom
Telelcom VS Arch
Telelcom VS I&C
Telelcom VS LSS
Telelcom VS Struc
Telelcom VS Telecom

That should get ya started.. ;)

[wcurrin]

@ pauljordan: That sounds a little daunting,but thanks for sharing the list. I may not be able to get to all of those, but I'll put that up as a goal. So I know where you are coming from, do work for a GC? CM? A/E?

Thanks,
Walter

[pauljordan]

@ pauljordan: That sounds a little daunting,but thanks for sharing the list. I may not be able to get to all of those, but I'll put that up as a goal. So I know where you are coming from, do work for a GC? CM? A/E?

Thanks,
Walter

I work for CH2MHill in Portland, OR as a 3D/BIM Coordinator.

[greenwaldc]

Paul's clash sets are quite similar to what you will find with many GC's/CM's. The breakdowns will vary from company to company; however we generally clash each trade/system against all other trades/systems.

In a perfect world, you would have run all of those tests; however the skeptic in me doesn't see that happening due to time constraints. I also have not seen the MEP engineers produce their drawings with supports or insulation taken into account. So if you run only hard clashes, you will still end up with numerous problems coming up during trade coordination.

If you are going to run clashes, I would suggest looking for soft hits as well, create a test that flags Ductwork within 4-6" of a ceiling, cable tray within 12" of parallel duct/pipe mains, etc.

I'll go a little off topic, and provide a few general suggestions.

When I am tasked with a quick and dirty MEP review of a set of drawings, I look for a few very specific items:

I should have 6" or more clear space between bottom of duct and finished ceiling. I typically find the largest duct, place it 3" below the structural beams (due to fireproofing), and see where the bottom will end up. Often times, it is within an inch or two of the ceiling, meaning those can lights that are so popular will not fit.

Electrical rooms must stack from floor to floor, or have a shaft/pathway provided between rooms. Also remember that the conduits will be coming up within the walls, or very close to the walls; if all walls sit on structural beams, it creates problems with getting conduits into those walls.

Shafts need to be larger than we usually think. I typically look for a clear opening to be ~6" larger than the duct which resides in it. This accommodates the insulation and the supports. The shaft wall should not sit directly on the edge of slab (we like our duct supports to sit on the slab within the shaft); however if the walls must be on edge of slab, make sure that your Structural Engineer has thought about the embeds that we will need to place on this edge to support the duct/pipes.

We can't pass utilities through elevator machine rooms, although a hard lid ceiling can work wonders.

I always check for water/waste lines passing through electrical rooms; it may not be against code, but it often creates problems.

If the project has grease duct, its going to be bigger than you think, it needs to slope, and it needs to have access panels every 12', plus at every change of direction.

I've also seen a lot of 'floating' or 'cloud' ceilings lately. These have their own support requirements, which are not usually coordinated with the MEP utilities above the ceiling during the design phase.