Autodesk Building Design Suites

[chris_3302]

Was curious on how many people have heard the news about the new Building Design Suites that Autodesk released today. These suites provide a lot of programs for a very low price. Also, if you already have the software the upgrade to these suites are even cheaper! Thoughts?

Here is the link for more information:

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?id=16406616&siteID=123112

The Autodesk Building Design Suite is a comprehensive building design software solution that supports CAD and BIM workflows in one flexible, cost-effective package.

[BrenDillon-IHA]

Two words: Rip Off

I never use the overwhelming majority of those programs. They're bundling a whole bunch of garbage with a couple useful programs and trying to convince people it's a deal. if you work for a massive multidisciplinary firm, then this might be worthwhile, particularly for the multiple Revit licenses bundled with Navis. but mostly... No Way Jose.

[chris_3302]

True...but if you look at the whole picture it is worth it. Say someone has Revit Architecture Suite (Revit and AutoCAD), they may not be able to utilize Autodesk® SketchBook® Designer but I know that they can benefit having 3D Studio Max and it's capabilities. Just that program alone is worth the money, comparing the price for a new seat. If you currently have Autodesk software the cost is lowered. Taking the same example, upgrading to the Building Design Suite - Premium from Revit Architecture Suite, to get 3D Studio Max, is $1495. Thats a great deal and not a rip off. Plus they get access to all the other software (just in case they need it). You may be suprised at how some of this software can be of use.

If one would like to see if this bundle is something that can be of value, check out the free virtual event that Autodesk will be holding next Wednesday, April 20th. It's free and will show how all these programs can work together. Use the link below to register...

http://experience.autodesk.com/go/2227

[Steve_Stafford]

Rip off?

If you only use RAC then just renew RAC, ignore the Suite.

Imagine one person firm, one seat of RAC Suite (includes acad/acad arch like before), they are on the hook for one seat of RAC subscription per year (about $800 USD). For the subscription price of two seats they can also get RST/RME and Max Design (plus all the Acad based stuff thrown in). To get the similar package they'd be on the hook for four subscription fees on for RAC, RST, RME and Max.

If I've got four licenses of RAC I can crossgrade to Premium and gain access to the other software. My subscription price increases by four seats from $3200 to $6400 so that's a good sized increase (still less by half than priced separately) if they don't really need the other tools. It should be an interesting year for resellers trying to help customers figure out the right mix of software to crossgrade/retire/upgrade. It will be interesting for customers too. I still want a single application of all Revit features, one install, one application, everything under the hood. This is a step in the right direction for firms that are wear of dealing with everything as individual products, I think... your mileage may vary.

[BrenDillon-IHA]

I work almost exclusively in revit for document production and have never once needed or wanted 3DS Max since I left grad school. For working in the 'real world', I've never met anyone who has used it either, aside from one guy who was trying to use it because that was what he had and didn't know how to use Revit. I've had 3DS Max on my machine for almost two years now and recently uninstalled it and told my boss that there was no need to buy it in the future. If you were in architecture, instead of sales, you would know this to be completely and totally unsurprising.

Companies LOVE to sell people software on the "in case you need it" idea. The implication being that some day, you're going to need it and Oh God, what will you do if you don't have it? Except you most likely won't ever need it and the software will just take up space on your hard drive. And cost you money of course.

Now, if you want to talk about a bundle of AutoCAD, Revit (choice of version) and Navisworks, then THAT would be a useful package with no "Just in case" garbage.

[chris_3302]

If you were in architecture, instead of sales, you would know this to be completely and totally unsurprising.

FYI...I worked for an Architecture Firm for 9 years. I get how you can come to that conclusion based on the label of "Sales Manager." I understand how these programs work inside a firm and their value.

I totaly agree that one could use Revit and not touch 3D Studio Max. The question is, is Revit Architecture the best tool for everything? In my opinion, you will get a better rendering out of 3D Studio Max...have a better presentation to the client using Showcase...better tools in Revit Structure for structural work...better tools in Revit MEP for MEP work...better clash detection in Navisworks...and so on.

I understand that these suites are not for everyone, but it is my job to HELP those in the industry be equiped with the BEST tools to provide the BEST service. It is not just about sales for me, it's about helping...just sayin!

[chris_3302]

Now, if you want to talk about a bundle of AutoCAD, Revit (choice of version) and Navisworks, then THAT would be a useful package with no "Just in case" garbage.

Also, the Ultimate Design Suite comes with Navisworks and the cost is less than a new seat and subscription. Check the website for a description...

[Steve_Stafford]

I'm not in sales, I buy the software myself with my own money, not my "boss's. I probably won't use Max routinely but I use all three routinely so getting "more-for-less" is a deal for me. Now that I'll have Max without the extra burden I might find time to learn and use it. It's always cost less than Revit so the cost hasn't been the biggest barrier to using it...the learning curve/time has been.

Suites don't make sense for you or your firm, so no worries...don't cross grade to the Suite.

[Scott D Davis]

Brendan, does your office own Microsoft Office? If so, which version?

[cdatechguy]

I don't know if we upgraded to the suites or not.....but for the Ultimate version we use 8 of the 13....

[jsnyder.68308]

I think that calling the Suite choices garbage may be a little over the top. My reseller asked my opinion on the choices provided and I give him some honest feedback. If you need only a seat of Revit and Navis, the suite is actually a pretty good deal. The crossgrade option seems like a pretty good deal too, especially if you consider that a new seat of Navis is around $10K. That being said the main problem I see is that the choices seem to be software/marketing driven rather than workflow or discipline driven.

The perception of getting a bunch of software you don't really need or want seems wasteful and will put some people off - me included, probably. It seems like someone who doesn't fully understand how all these applications are really used together assembled the options. I also have a bit of trouble comprehending how the licensing for a list of stuff like this will actually work. Someone would need a large database operation to keep track of multiple deploymments of this in the real world.

Maybe it is like the way airlines compute ticket prices. Say I want to fly from Seattle to Portland. It is cheaper for me to fly from Seattle to Portland to Dallas to than it is to fly from Seattle to Portland, but I cannot choose to just buy the cheaper ticket and not use the portion from Portland to Dallas? WTF?

[Paul Monsef]

I work almost exclusively in revit for document production and have never once needed or wanted 3DS Max since I left grad school. For working in the 'real world', I've never met anyone who has used it either, aside from one guy who was trying to use it because that was what he had and didn't know how to use Revit. I've had 3DS Max on my machine for almost two years now and recently uninstalled it and told my boss that there was no need to buy it in the future. If you were in architecture, instead of sales, you would know this to be completely and totally unsurprising.

Companies LOVE to sell people software on the "in case you need it" idea. The implication being that some day, you're going to need it and Oh God, what will you do if you don't have it? Except you most likely won't ever need it and the software will just take up space on your hard drive. And cost you money of course.

Now, if you want to talk about a bundle of AutoCAD, Revit (choice of version) and Navisworks, then THAT would be a useful package with no "Just in case" garbage.
I've used revit for production for as long as Autodesk has owned it; and I use 3ds MAX Design.... formerly VIZ.

I'm actually thinking of upgrading to the premium suite even though I already own MAX. It will save me +/-$200 per year and i'll get MEP and Structural and some other stuff.... Good deal!

[Mike Sealander]

We find the Revit/Max combo pretty useful. I'm the owner of a small firm, and our Revit/Max split is probably 90% Revit and 10% Max, but for solar studies, lighting analysis, still and video renderings, Max is indispensable.

[chris_3302]

Brendan, does your office own Microsoft Office? If so, which version?

I think we scared him away... :)

[narlee]

I checked out the Suites. One of the offerings is something called Showcase. It purports to do real-time rendering. I would vote to have a plug-in for Revit. I am thoroughly underwhelmed by the Revit renderer.

My 2c.

[narlee]

And apparently there's a Showcase Viewer for customers. Now, since Showcase is currently designed to interact with Inventor, it's way too much to wish further that the Viewer would have a Walk-Thru ability, but since we're pipe-dreaming here...:)

[BIMTIM]

Well,

I am in the 'jump for joy' camp. We are a GC who need all 3 flavours of Revit at times, and Navisworks for coordination. I have wanted to utilise the rendering power of Max (due to the terribly slow implementation in Revit) and Showcase looks like it may also have use to entice potential clients.

Inventor is currently the odd one out, though may come in very handy when it comes to integrating 3D shop drawings.

I take my hat off to Autodesk (not a common occurrence) and applaud the generosity.

For those of you not positioned to benefit from the offered suites, please enjoy using the wonderful products you already have.

[BIMTIM]

And apparently there's a Showcase Viewer for customers. Now, since Showcase is currently designed to interact with Inventor, it's way too much to wish further that the Viewer would have a Walk-Thru ability, but since we're pipe-dreaming here...:)
Check out you-tube videos, it does indeed allow walkthroughs. It would be even better if it accepted walkthrough paths directly from Revit/ACAD though I am told that the Showcase tools are easier to use that the revit camera tools...

Fingers also crossed...

[BrenDillon-IHA]

I think we scared him away... :)

Nope, the "one day" default view on AUGI means I sometimes slip out of threads I'm following. I'm on 2003 (though I'm pushing for the office to move to OpenOffice rather than upgrade again) for all that has to do with the cost of bread.

The way the licenses get tied to an individual machine (as I understand it, once one person checks out say, AutoCAD, only that one person can use any of the licenses from the suite) makes the licenses extremely limited IMO. As jsnyder said, it seems like the bundles were put together by people who have never used them in a workflow. It's advertised as a 71% savings on the Ultimate package, but they're bundling stuff that most users will never use together anyhow and calling it a deal. If I could use Revit Arch and Navis while the guy on my right uses Revit MEP and the guy on my left could be in Revit Structural then that would be a real deal and represent real savings, but it doesn't look like the licensing will work that way. It's a sales tactic that I'm not overly fond of (not entirely unlike the "But wait, there's More!" tagline you hear in As Seen on TV commercials) and that's why I call it garbage. I may be a little biased because I got a VERY hard sell on it from our Autodesk reseller. He simply would not take no for an answer even after I thanked him for the call and hung up on him. Finally I just called his boss and complained.

[narlee]

On license upgrades:
http://bimboom.blogspot.com/2011/05/little-more-insight-into-upcoming.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Revit3dcomJoinTheRevitlution+%28Revit3D.com+Join+the+BIM+Boom+*%29

[dandlf]

The way the licenses get tied to an individual machine (as I understand it, once one person checks out say, AutoCAD, only that one person can use any of the licenses from the suite) makes the licenses extremely limited IMO.

Can anyone confirm this? I find it hard to believe that we are tied back to an individual install to manage licences?

Lets say I have a team of 30 guys in my office:
10 Architects
10 Structural Engineers
10 MEP

Would I need 10 Suites? Which could be used concurrently by my team. OR
Would I need 30 Suites? Of which each suite can only be used on one individuals machine? (why not send me a dongle?)

Now it would be ideal to have a reseller to help us walk through the ideal combination of licences to optimise our setup. But their focus is on maximising profit and getting as many licences on our machines and as Steve says "on the hook"

Can we have a laymans explanation of these new licence changes? please....

[antman]

Lets say I have a team of 30 guys in my office:
10 Architects
10 Structural Engineers
10 MEP

Would I need 10 Suites? Which could be used concurrently by my team. OR
Would I need 30 Suites? Of which each suite can only be used on one individuals machine? (why not send me a dongle?)

It's one suite per user, so in your scenario you would need 30.

[BrenDillon-IHA]

It's one suite per user, so in your scenario you would need 30.

But just think! Each of those employees could have Revit Arch, Revit MEP, Revit Structure, 3DS Max, AutoCAD and Navisworks all running AT THE SAME TIME!!!

Well, until their computer told them to go sod themself and crashed.

[chris_3302]

Sorry...I didn't get any notification that this conversation continued. But it is a correct statement that you would need 30 licenses in that scenerio. These suites act like any other suite (Revit Architecture Suite for example - Revit & AutoCAD). This is nothing new.

You also can take into consideration that there are other suites available if everyone would not benefit from all the programs. Take your scenerio for example...if you feel as though the Architects would not benefit from having Revit MEP & Structure, then I would say that the Revit Architecture Suite or just the Standard Building Design Suite (if you don't use Revit), would be your best bet. Like you said, it would be best to get someone that understands your business dynamics and the suites to help you figure out the best combination. I would be happy to be that person, just let me know. I used to work for an Architectural firm for 9 years and want to help the industry. My desires have been mentioned previously in this thread.

Like everyone is saying...these new building design suites are not going to be for everyone. These suites are for those that have their hands in multiple disciplines or use multiple programs (i.e. Revit & 3D Max). if you don't fall under those two categories...then you wouldn't benefit from them. Stay with the other suites or individual programs.

[BIMTIM]

Point to remember:

You don't have to install all the packages if you don't want....

How many people own adobe suites, and use only the parts they need?

Do the math, make the choice, stop the whinging.

Or... in my case,Start Dancing! When will it ship already!!?!

[zanzibarbob7]

Bimtim, That's my question. When will they ship or be avaiable for download? I have posed that to my reseller, but no response!!

[Dimitri Harvalias]

They should be available for download now. They are also shipping now.
You can get the free trial version from the Autodesk site.
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?siteID=123112&id=15175303

[zanzibarbob7]

I only had Revit for several years and only upgraded recently because of this offer. I got a physical disk set and the link for download for the Revit/Cad suite. Maybe I should be a little patient for the BDS. Thanks for the update!

[Dimitri Harvalias]

Thomas, from your last post I get the impression that you are expecting this to 'arrive' as part of you regular subscription?
This is a whole new deal. The Revit/AutoCAD Suites are still available and, if you are on subscription you should have received notice long ago that downloads of 2012 are available on Subscription Center.
Once you pony up for the upgrade you won't be getting a bunch of discs and plastic boxes. The 'Physical Disc' for the Suites will actually be all loaded on a single USB Drive in a little box about the size of a package of ramen noodles (with substantially more substance contained therein ;) )
Nice, and in line with Autodesk's corporate sustainability initiatives.

[bulletproofdesign]

They should be available for download now. They are also shipping now.
You can get the free trial version from the Autodesk site.

My subscription site (both personal and work which are both 'updated') are still showing only the 'Revit Architecture Suite' and no serials or download links are available...

I am waiting for the USB stick....

Hurry up already, I need to feed my addiction!

[zanzibarbob7]

I finally got mine today, as there was a screw up on getting the payment for the Revit/Cad. I downloaded it from the Sub Center, but I think that for multi seats you get a USB drive, like Dimitri said.

Upgrading was simple, as the instalation detects what you already have installed and goes around them, but in the initial setup not all the software is check, so do that. I got everything installed on two computers and Autodesk is making Activation easy.

The only question I have is.... do I go back into the Revit/Cad suite and apply the new SN and product code? They kept the old numbers which are different than the BDS Suite numbers.

[dandlf]

I feel like such a dill. I stupidly believed the market bluff of the BDS free upgrade promotion.

I applied to convert 25 of my existing Architectural licences to be BDS so that I could get my MEP department onto Revit.
I had the project selected, PM's agreed and setup, the training undertaken and asked our reseller that if I installed the 30 day trial of Revit MEP could they assure me that the licence would be upgraded within the 10-15 working days as advertised.

All was going to plan until I ring up today on the 15th working day to be told that Autodesk could take up to 90 days to process my BDS upgrade.
Looks like this project will be CAD for MEP.

[Brian Myers]

All was going to plan until I ring up today on the 15th working day to be told that Autodesk could take up to 90 days to process my BDS upgrade.

90 days? Seems a bit extreme... if it's a must need those items can be "fast tracked" a bit through the system. Your reseller won't be able to do it, but they normally can kick the right people to make it happen within a few days ....

[antman]

I agree with Brian. If your reseller isn't willing to cause a stink at The Desk on your behalf, it may be time to get a new reseller.

[dandlf]

I must come across as the whiniest Adesk user of all time...

So I installed our Revit MEP guys with trial versions with the plan being that our license file would come through before the 30 days expiry of the trial.

The license file was installed 40 days after the trial installed and now I find out that trial versions are locked out and there is a new feature called a "viewer" which cannot be activated as a network version from a trail install.

My reseller tells me this is a new 'feature'. Thanks Autodesk for not allowing me to activate the trial version. Now I have to uninstall and redeploy 45 seats.

So much ggrrrrrrrrrr to constant changes with very little warnings.

[antman]

I must come across as the whiniest Adesk user of all time...

So I installed our Revit MEP guys with trial versions with the plan being that our license file would come through before the 30 days expiry of the trial.

The license file was installed 40 days after the trial installed and now I find out that trial versions are locked out and there is a new feature called a "viewer" which cannot be activated as a network version from a trail install.

My reseller tells me this is a new 'feature'. Thanks Autodesk for not allowing me to activate the trial version. Now I have to uninstall and redeploy 45 seats.

So much ggrrrrrrrrrr to constant changes with very little warnings.

For reals? You're not whining - that is a major fail. For the amount of $$ this software costs, you would really think the customer service would be better.

[dandlf]

definitely for real on that one. We actually tried to edit the registry to see if we could trick it into finding the new network license file, with no luck.

The 30 days trial is just that. After 30 days you should look for the new 'feature' which is the 'Viewer'.
It is the same tool, just with another shortcut with a /viewer switch, that I assume bypasses licensing and nothing else as it points the same .exe file anyways.

I am struggling to find a reason why Autodesk would do this other than to make it incumbent on their users to 'hurry up and buy' that trial software you have installed.

oh well, back to un-deploying and then re-deploying I go......