Can someone explain phases?!?!?

[cr_gixxer]

So I trying to use phases for a renovation project, and it seems I don't have the first clue about phases. (even though I muddled my way through a previous preliminary project.... that even though I transfer project standards, I can't replicate the results)

I hoping someone can explain the basics, that the wikihelp fails to do

If I want to have two sheets showing a demo/existing plan, and a new plan to show the client, do I need to duplicate the floor plan so I can control the phase of that view individually? It seems if I do it as a dependent, the phase must remain the same.

Secondly, I keep reading that you do not need a demo phase, but it my limited experience, I seem to need to create a demo phase to get my graphics to appear properly. And with this create a phase filter that I can tailor to what I want, as the preset ones never seem to work.

If you only have two phases, existing and new, then what is previous and demo good for?!?!?! Where is the existing and demo? So I create one, and I can't get anything to show up. I set up the filter called existing and demo (for a demo plan essentially). I set new to "not display", existing "by category", and demolished "overriden" (so I can get a red dashed line for example)
Everything starts out by being modelled as existing, then I set the phase to demo, and then it seems to work mildly ok.

It seems that in my models, the phase filter absolutely massacres the quality of the image in a shaded view. It appears that everything is in coarse mode, solid patterns are all grey, or solid black, and the readability is just plain garbage.

any advice, or links would be much appreciated. I am wasting too much time trying to resolve this. At this point I might as well switch back to CAD.

Why do you only have one graphic override setting that has to apply to all?

[Revitaoist]

Create a plan called demo plan. Set it's phase to new construction, because the demo is considered "new construction". Set it's phase filter to show existing and demo. Control the graphic overrides from the filter. Make a second plan called floor plan set it's phase to new construction. set its phase filter to show new and existing. Change the graphic override for "show new and existing" to have demo not displayed, no override for existing, and a light grey override for new construction for a poche.

[nancy.mcclure]

Cr_grxxr,
Bear in mind that "demo" is a status applied to a element (or portion of) rather than a point in time. You set the point in time (new construction) and then choose to see object graphics based upon their status via phase filter graphics. No need for a specific DEMO phase, when you can have three New Construction phase views, one showing Existing and Demo (your demo plan) one showing Existing and New (your construction plans) and one showing Complete (your presentation plans)

[rosskirby]

To summarize what Revitaoist and Nancy have already said, you'll need 2 phases (Existing and New Construction) and 3 views for each level (each one a duplicate of the other, with nothing but the phase settings changed):

First floor (Existing) -
Phase filter: Show New
Phase: Existing

First floor (Demo) -
Phase filter: Show Previous + Demo
Phase: New Construction

First floor (New) -
Phase filter: Show Previous + New
Phase: New Construction

To control the graphics of the existing, go to the Manage tab and click on Phases. In the window that opens, go to the Graphic Overrides tab and change the settings there. You may have to play with these a little to get them exactly the way you want. Or, if you post an image of what you want your existing walls to look like in the new phase drawings, then we can help you get everything set up.

[patricks]

I think rosskirby said it well. Unless you show a plan in your documents with only existing elements (we don't) then that Existing floor plan will be a "working" or "sketch" floor plan only, solely to enter in existing elements and conditions. That way you don't have to go around changing the phase of all your existing stuff after the fact.

On any project with existing building elements (other than just existing topo) I will create that "working existing" view first thing after starting the new project from our template.

Our phase filters look something like this:

Existing elements are overridden for New Construction views to show a solid gray cut pattern, with no surface pattern overrides other than changing the color to gray. New Construction obviously has no override. Demo items are shown heavy dashed on Show Previous + Demo views.

Just think of a simple building addition project with a single construction phase. "Previous" elements are existing to remain. Demolished items are items created on a previous phase, and demolished in the current New Construction phase. New is self-explanatory, and Temporary items are both created and demolished in the same phase.

Unfortunately there is no real way of showing Future construction at this point. On projects such as a shell building for future tenant fit-outs. we usually show future plumbing fixture locations as Temporary items, which makes them show up as dark blue dashed lines on our drawings. That method seems to work okay for us.

[Dean Camlin]

To add to what Patrick said, I tend to like to show demolished items with a finely dotted line (1/32" spacing) rather than the heavier dashed lines. Often my projects are simple enough that separate demolition plans are unnecessary, so I show both existing construction, demolition, and new construction in the same view.

Unfortunately, Revit will by default continue to show any surface patterns of a demolished item, and demolished items will be opaque, obscuring any construction (new or existing) behind them. This can lead to weird graphics if, for example, you are showing an elevation with new windows cut into an existing wall: the surface pattern from the demolished portion of the wall still shows, and the opaque demolished wall obscures the new window! For this reason, I always override the graphics for demolished items by making them transparent and turning off visibility of the surface patterns. I have attempted to submit a "wish" to make this the default behavior, but that wish may not have registered.

[cr_gixxer]

Thanks for the summary rosskirby.
I don't fully understand it yet, but it really really helps to have someone lay it out like that. I think with the overrides, I should be able to dial it in to what I want. Also thanks for your advice patricks

What I still don't understand is why for the first floor (demo) drawing, the phase needs to be new construction to have anything visible? Is it because the act of demolish is new (UN)Construction?

I don't think I will need the straight up existing plan, the demo should be able to do double duty for this particular project since it is fairly small.

[patricks]

Thanks for the summary rosskirby.
I don't fully understand it yet, but it really really helps to have someone lay it out like that. I think with the overrides, I should be able to dial it in to what I want. Also thanks for your advice patricks

What I still don't understand is why for the first floor (demo) drawing, the phase needs to be new construction to have anything visible? Is it because the act of demolish is new (UN)Construction?

I don't think I will need the straight up existing plan, the demo should be able to do double duty for this particular project since it is fairly small.

You are correct, demolition typically happens as part of the construction work. And since demolished items in Revit really only describe the phase in which the items were created and the phase in which they get removed, you have to set your view to Show Previous + Demo filter with New Construction as the view phase. The demo plan shows a point in time concurrent with your new construction work, but it's showing the existing to remain items and the items that get demolished as part of that new construction work.

If the view is set to Existing, you don't see the demolished items as being demolished, because they haven't been demolished yet. And before Existing there was nothing (kinda like Genesis 1 or something haha), and so nothing displays if you try to view demolished items in an Existing view.

[cr_gixxer]

So what about furniture, shelving and equipment? Is there no way to relocate.

I figure if I am reconfiguring rooms and such, I have to "demolish" the furniture, and then "reconstruct" it in the new plan? I guess if I need to maintain existing existing equipment for relocation, I would have to keep a manual log of what I am deleting, and what I am putting back in to "balance the books" so to speak

[patricks]

I would do this:

Put all the existing furniture in on an existing plan. Copy all that furniture to the clipboard, and then set the selected furniture to be demolished on the New Construction phase (or whatever furniture gets moved). Then go to a new construction plan and Paste Same Place. That will bring in all that furniture as created new, which you can then move and arrange as needed.

Then you could also add a parameter to your furniture category to differentiate the true New furniture vs. existing relocated furniture and use a filter on the view, if you need to differentiate between new vs. existing relocated graphically.

[cr_gixxer]

Thanks Thanks Thanks Patricks!

Any advice on how I should treat rooms?

Should I have existing rooms, and can you demo them?
Or is the room demolish a result of the walls being room bounding?

[cr_gixxer]

Thanks Thanks Thanks Patricks!

Any advice on how I should treat rooms?

Should I have existing rooms, and can you demo them?
Or is the room demolish a result of the walls being room bounding?

After some digging and playing, I guess I do need the existing plan that was mentioned earlier, as it seems to be the only way to insert the room to the existing phase, and have it stay there. (Because as we discussed earlier, demo is new construction)

For the ones I want to maintain, I would have to:
Select all rooms in that I want to maintain through the phase change.
Copy to Clipboard
Change to the View of the new phase (demo or new)
Paste Aligned to Current View

[Exar Kun]

Exactly. Unfortunately rooms can only exist in the phase in which they were created so you'll need to do as you said and copy the rooms you wish to keep to your new construction phase drawings. This creates issues when you want to show existing rooms in your demo drawings. We just use dumb text in this case.

[patricks]

Phase-aware rooms have been on the wish list forever. I have said myself since room objects are aware of their physical surroundings in the model (room-bounding objects) then they, too, should also be able to have Phase Created and Phase Demolished settings.

[cr_gixxer]

Thanks for all the posts and help! Hopefully this thread helps others as well.

What's the procedure for demolishing a door where you don't want to infill with a wall?

[patricks]

Thanks for all the posts and help! Hopefully this thread helps others as well.

What's the procedure for demolishing a door where you don't want to infill with a wall?

Demolish door, then place an opening back in the same place as the door. I usually have to place it slightly offset to make the opening cut both the existing wall and the new wall infill, and then slide/align it into the final position to match the position of the demolished door.

Our door openings are actually door families, so they show up in our door schedule and we can note the opening as existing to remain after the door is removed.

[cr_gixxer]

Now that I have these plans sorted out, and looking good thanks to the help of this forum, I want to learn a bit more.

In the new plan, I like how I can differentiate the colour of the existing walls (grey) to the new constuction (black), but is there a way to do this with doors? Ideally what I'd like is an additional option for demolish where I can "relocate" and this tie it to a schedule where I can chart the existing doors to remain, doors to be relocated.

Otherwise I think I'm relying on a manual count and dumb text labelling system.

any suggestions?

[patricks]

See what I said earlier about using a parameter to differentiate doors that are to be relocated. They'll be listed as Phase Created - New, but you'll have that parameter that identifies them as existing to be relocated. That way you can change the graphics of those doors with a filter, and include that information in your schedule.

I might do a text parameter for doors and enter either New or Relocated for each door, and include that as a column in the schedule. Then you can set up a filter that will take all doors with the Existing parameter and apply certain graphic overrides to them.

I believe you could also apply that same parameter to the existing demolished doors, and identify them all as either Relocated or Removed or whatever terminology you want to use, and then create a "working" schedule covering both phases that shows all the relocated doors, which will allow you to make sure all existing relocated doors are accounted for with matching new "relocated" doors.

[cr_gixxer]

I might do a text parameter for doors and enter either New or Relocated for each door, and include that as a column in the schedule. Then you can set up a filter that will take all doors with the Existing parameter and apply certain graphic overrides to them.

I believe you could also apply that same parameter to the existing demolished doors, and identify them all as either Relocated or Removed or whatever terminology you want to use, and then create a "working" schedule covering both phases that shows all the relocated doors, which will allow you to make sure all existing relocated doors are accounted for with matching new "relocated" doors.


How do I add a text parameter to the doors? or is it a parameter to the door schedule?

[patricks]

If you do it in the door family, you'll have to make it a Shared parameter in order to schedule it. Or you can just make it a project parameter in the Doors category in your project (add it in the Fields window of your door schedule), or include it in your project template for all future projects.