Full Revit Projects Files Available for Review

[craighowie]

Hi there.

Is there a resource on the net where one can access example .rvt files of fully documented projects in revit.

What a great resource this would be to learn how others have streamlined their revit workflow!

I understand that there are limitations on AUGI with file size limits to achieve this, but are there people doing this through alternative methods.

I would be more than happy to share some of my project files for review!

Thanks,
Craig

[MikeJarosz]

I can't imagine any licensed architect would ever allow this. The legal implications of what you are asking are enormous, not for you, but for the author of the model. And the client who paid for it all would have you in court in no time.

A while back someone asked if there was a source for hospital families. My advice then was that no one who had developed reliable families would part with them for free. I did note that manufacturers do make rfa files for their products. That's the most likely source for Revit files for free.

But you want whole buildings...............

[craighowie]

Thanks Mike for your response.

Yes possibly a very utopian like request, the architect would obviously ask for permission first on a project with a zero 'top secret' status...

Posting a well drawn well documented 150m2 house is hardly going to irritate a client who has already been living in it for the last 5 years and has no intention on building again! Your point is very valid and the nature of the project would have to be well assessed.

Is there a way to post a .rvt file which is completely read only?

Mike, I understand you argument about families and the need to hold tightly onto what you have... The issue is that for BIM to really work we cannot have everyone spending their time recreating the wheel!

Thanks again for the response, possibly others can voice their own opinions as well
Craig

[patricks]

Get stuff from Revit City or manufacturers if you need them, study the families, deconstruct them and try to learn how they're made. Then when you need something that no one has made before you'll be able to make it yourself.

[craighowie]

Thanks Patricks

I have been doing that for years now, am not so concerned about families. More interested in the ways others are structuring their revit files to streamline their workflow in Revit.

[MikeJarosz]

Sorry if I came on so strong. I am currently acting as an expert architectural witness in a multi million dollar lawsuit against a well known architect. The stakes are so large this guy could lose everything.

David Childs of SOM once acted as a guest juror at the Yale School of Architecture. After the original World Trade Center design was unveiled, a student sued Mr Childs for stealing the design from his school project. A student sued! They settled out of court. Many owners demand non disclosure agreements from their architects. High profile clients don't always want strangers nosing around their $100 million Richard Meier masterpiece.

If you want to learn more about Revit and how to put a project together, find a nearby Revit User Group. If you can't, the NYC user group puts their meetings online in webinar format. An, you've found AUGI. Check in often. There's a lot to learn here.

[wmullett]

You are asking other business men to tell you how they do business and I don't think that will happen. Think about it.

[Mike Sealander]

You might try finding another Revit shop that isn't competing with you in the market, and gently offer to let them see your files (on your computer) in exchange for seeing their files (on their computer).

[cdatechguy]

Chris Brown had some drawings from an interiors class at AU...they looked awesome...so many of us asked if we could get prints...once he got everything off the drawings about where it was or could be, he released a few sheets.

But to release a full Revit project is the fear of all Principles....as your basically giving away a fully constructable project for free..

Might try a local user group that is willing to let you peek over there shoulder on the way they construct their models....but nobody is just going to hand over the model as its basically handing over the plans.

[gtarch]

When we first started, I often was looking for something like a full project to look at and deconstruct.

I think this is something Adesk could and should do. They should bake up a couple of well-organized demo projects and include it with the install. They could show off the program functionality and help new users get a good start.

And then they could update the family libraries that ship with the product, which look like they are stuck in a time warp from 1995.

[MikeJarosz]

You might try finding another Revit shop that isn't competing with you in the market, and gently offer to let them see your files (on your computer) in exchange for seeing their files (on their computer).

You show me yours and I'll show you mine ??????????? :Oops::Oops::Oops:

gtarch has a great idea. Autodesk could include a fully realized project on the install disc for newbies to pick apart.

[patricks]

2011 and 2012 did ship with a couple of sample projects. I'm not sure what all was in them but I think a basic building was there with some structure, dimensions, annotations, etc.

[Mike Sealander]

FWIW, I don't trust ADSK to come up with a fully realized, good project. The market is moving too quickly.

[gtarch]

The sample projects that ship with the program are notable for their 'incompleteness'. They don't really give a sense of how a set of plans can be assembled from the various pieces and program features. They are just sets of 'pieces'.

And there is no question that Adesk could assemble a few sets of plans. I'm not saying really big and totally complete, but complete enough to see how legends, details, schedules, views, and so on can be assembled into an integrated package. It's something we all figure out how to do, but it could be made easier to learn it.

[sbrown]

I asked for this years ago from a training standpoint. Basically the industry needed a document that showed the process of creating/documenting a building information model(revit model) from begining to end. I thought the help tutorials were great at teaching each individual tool. but not the process. I was told they didn't want to influence the way we documented our buildings, just teach the tools. As we all know Revit does and should influence the way we document our projects. so anyway, that was a dead end. So then I suggested AU have a linear set of classes taking a building project from beginning(concept) to end(CD's and CA), someday FM. That was what I hoped the power track was to become, however it didn't. I still think somehow we need to create this sequence based curriculum. However I have no idea the venue. Maybe RTC would be the right place. I do understand why Autodesk as a software company can't really do it. Architects and engineers need to do it. I wish I had time to take it on, but don't.

[MikeJarosz]

I do understand why Autodesk as a software company can't really do it. Architects and engineers need to do it.

Most of the Revit people I have met (I have 20 Autodesk business cards in my collection) have been architects or engineers. They are the outside face of Autodesk who talk to other architects. Phil Bernstein actually teaches at the Yale School of Architecture. Because I also do some development, I have been to some of the Autodesk developer conferences, including AU. There I have met Emile Kfouri and Jim Law and Tim Whatshisname who actually write code.

The feeling I get is it's the lawyers who determine what AD distributes with their programs.

[gtarch]

" I was told they didn't want to influence the way we documented our buildings, just teach the tools. As we all know Revit does and should influence the way we document our projects. "


The problem with this statement is that we don't want Adesk to tell us to how to design or document a building, we would appreciate if Adesk would make it CLEARER how the PROGRAM FEATURES can be deployed in an integrated manner to produce a set of plans.

Your conversation with Adesk also clarifies, for once and for all I think, the obtuse nature of Adesk documentation and Help files. God forbid they make clear how these things are intended to fit together. Better that we all stumble around for a year or two while we figure it out.

[jeffh]

" I was told they didn't want to influence the way we documented our buildings, just teach the tools. As we all know Revit does and should influence the way we document our projects. "


The problem with this statement is that we don't want Adesk to tell us to how to design or document a building, we would appreciate if Adesk would make it CLEARER how the PROGRAM FEATURES can be deployed in an integrated manner to produce a set of plans.

Your conversation with Adesk also clarifies, for once and for all I think, the obtuse nature of Adesk documentation and Help files. God forbid they make clear how these things are intended to fit together. Better that we all stumble around for a year or two while we figure it out.

I am interrested in knowing what kinds of materials could make using Revit clearer for you?

In the past we have provided step by step written tutorials taking a project from beginning to end. The tutorials that shipped with 2010 walked through the process of using most of the tools on one building form beginning to end. When complete with the tutorials the document set was by no means "complete" but there was an example of most of the core features of Revit in it. The same thing was done for MEP and Structure using the same building. So if you worked through the tutorials for all 3 products you would have a BIM with example of most elements. Those "completed" tutorial files became the advanced example files that ship with Revit 2011 and 2012.

These tutorials can be found here:

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/item?siteID=123112&id=13080067

We have also done some tutorial videos that show a process and are meant to show how a number of tools are used together to accomplish a workflow. An example can be found here:

http://wikihelp.autodesk.com/Revit/enu/2012/Help/Video_Galleries_-_Revit/Conceptual_Energy_Analysis_Videos

Some older examples of this type of tutorial in video format.

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/item?siteID=123112&id=13734321

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/item?siteID=123112&id=13945669

Those videos try to take a smaller subset of tools in Revit and show how they are used together.

This year the Users guide and all supporting documentation (short video tutorials) was moved to a wiki format to encourage the Revit community to add their own knowledge to support what Autodesk publishes. I encourage anyone who wants to help our documentation get better to contrubute to the wiki in some way so it becomes the resource you would like it to be. We can work to address direct comments made to Wiki pages or anyone can edit the pages in the Users Guide directly to add their own experiences to the Autodesk documentation.

Giving us direct feedback helps us shape the materials we are able to provide.

[gtarch]

Well, now you've put me on the spot:

I will give you a good example of a feature that took us a long time to master, through a lot of trial and error. Phasing. If you were to include a set of drawings, with an existing and proposed site plan (include some re-grading while you're at it), and with existing, demo, new and complete floor and ceiling plans, or even finish plans, and coordinated existing, new, complete elevations and sections, it would be super helpful. Maybe throw in a couple of detail plans and wall sections, with the new/demo/etc. Don't just stop after showing how a feature works in a single context, show it in multiple contexts, in a way that is similar to how you need to do it in a real project. You could give this set of drawings a name like Phasing Demonstration Set. Then you could give us a multi-phased project, once we figure out the first how the first one is working.

You could provide something similar for each sort of functionality. Filters is another feature that has a lot of potential, but that takes a long time to grasp when you are a learner. I think you have people at Adesk who could think of dozens of ways to use filters in a matter of minutes. Why not share that?

In my experience, tutorials are great, but sometimes you really want to see a demonstration of something in a 'real-world' context. You can learn a lot in a hurry this way. And tutorials can't easily cover the many variations that you could put into a big set of 'sample' files.

And we did use a lot of the tutorials when we were getting started, so we're not being lazy, honest.

[MikeJarosz]

Because I also do some development, I have been to some of the Autodesk developer conferences, including AU. There I have met Emile Kfouri and Jim Law and Tim Whatshisname who actually write code.

My apologies. I was thinking of Jeremy Tammik. You know, Tim...Tam. It comes with age.....

He did some amazing stuff. Wrote a short snip of code in C#, compiled it, then converted the compiled code back into Visual Basic!!!

[jeffh]

Well, now you've put me on the spot:

I will give you a good example of a feature that took us a long time to master, through a lot of trial and error. Phasing. If you were to include a set of drawings, with an existing and proposed site plan (include some re-grading while you're at it), and with existing, demo, new and complete floor and ceiling plans, or even finish plans, and coordinated existing, new, complete elevations and sections, it would be super helpful. Maybe throw in a couple of detail plans and wall sections, with the new/demo/etc. Don't just stop after showing how a feature works in a single context, show it in multiple contexts, in a way that is similar to how you need to do it in a real project. You could give this set of drawings a name like Phasing Demonstration Set. Then you could give us a multi-phased project, once we figure out the first how the first one is working.

You could provide something similar for each sort of functionality. Filters is another feature that has a lot of potential, but that takes a long time to grasp when you are a learner. I think you have people at Adesk who could think of dozens of ways to use filters in a matter of minutes. Why not share that?

In my experience, tutorials are great, but sometimes you really want to see a demonstration of something in a 'real-world' context. You can learn a lot in a hurry this way. And tutorials can't easily cover the many variations that you could put into a big set of 'sample' files.

And we did use a lot of the tutorials when we were getting started, so we're not being lazy, honest.

Thanks for the feedback. I happened to be working on something for phasing already so I turned it into a post on the wiki and included the file I was working on as an example.

http://wikihelp.autodesk.com/Revit/enu/Community/Examples/Example_Project_to_Illustrate_Phasing#pageFiles

It does not go into the detail you described (that is the complaint right? :Oops: ) , but it does illustrate the basic ideas of how phasing works. Once you understand the concept of phasing the same concept can be applied to ANY view. The exception to that would be re-grading, that is a totally different tool. It might not be exactly what you asked for but it is a start and anyone (or maybe me) can edit my article and example file to cover the other kinds of views you mentioned.

I will have to see if I can develop something else to provide an exmple of using filters in a couple of different ways.

[gtarch]

Jeff:

Thanks for following this!

You're right, it's about adding some the depth to show the ways the tool can be used. Showing it in multiple settings, and views. It may seem obvious to an experienced use that you just learn it once and then use the same principle for the rest of the views and circumstances, but beginners benefit from seeing these tools in different settings and that makes the learning go faster. It shows how you build up the plan set from the little pieces.

I'm not suggesting you give tutorials for how to do the plan, and then how to do the elevation, and then the section and so on. That would be tedious and unneeded; more complex sample files would supplement the basic tutorials.

The comment about the earth tool goes to it also. How do the various tools fit together? This is where 'sample sets' of plans can show so much more than a tutorial that is focused on showing 'one tool'.

The reason people are looking for fuller set of plans is because it is hard to make the leap from 'here's the toolbox' to 'here's how the tools can be used to make things'.

gt

[Mike Sealander]

I have often thought the Adobe Creative Suite help is good. One of the issues I often encounter with Revit Help is that after a short paragraph about how a feature works, the Help article ends with "...depending on your design intent." Or, the help paragraph is a riff on "draw lines based on your design intent. For more help, see "Drawing Model Lines".

[gtarch]

Jeff:

I looked at your phasing file, and it did seem to cover the bases, existing new complete views.

I'm going to point you to a project file that was included with some of the older Revit Tutorials. Freighthouse Flats. It seems like you stopped pointing Revit users to that sort of tutorial some years ago (2009?). I spent a lot of hours playing with the Freigthouse flat project when I was learning. I still like looking at it form time to time, there are some interesting things in there. It was the best of the Adesk sample files, by far. Amazingly that was from a real project, built in Kansas City. I found some picture of it, I could not resist attaching them to this message!

Not to be mean about it, but the sample file you posted was a little like a finger-painting.

You would help the whole community if Adesk could be convinced to showcase near-real kind of work, things that really highlight how the program can tackle complex situations - not just the small tool demonstrations that seem to be the status quo. I'd suggest that each topic have 2 samples files: a basic finger-paint sample file, and a elaborate real-world sample file. There is a need for both types of sample files.

Or why not cook up a few real-world demos that include all the tools used in a single file? That's what we all have to figure out how to do when we're leaning.

It's a sidebar, but when looking back through the supplied documentaion, tutorials and so on, it really is apparent the Adesk has been doing less every year.

[jeffh]

Jeff:

I looked at your phasing file, and it did seem to cover the bases, existing new complete views.

I'm going to point you to a project file that was included with some of the older Revit Tutorials. Freighthouse Flats. It seems like you stopped pointing Revit users to that sort of tutorial some years ago (2009?). I spent a lot of hours playing with the Freigthouse flat project when I was learning. I still like looking at it form time to time, there are some interesting things in there. It was the best of the Adesk sample files, by far. Amazingly that was from a real project, built in Kansas City. I found some picture of it, I could not resist attaching them to this message!

Not to be mean about it, but the sample file you posted was a little like a finger-painting.

You would help the whole community if Adesk could be convinced to showcase near-real kind of work, things that really highlight how the program can tackle complex situations - not just the small tool demonstrations that seem to be the status quo. I'd suggest that each topic have 2 samples files: a basic finger-paint sample file, and a elaborate real-world sample file. There is a need for both types of sample files.

Or why not cook up a few real-world demos that include all the tools used in a single file? That's what we all have to figure out how to do when we're leaning.

It's a sidebar, but when looking back through the supplied documentaion, tutorials and so on, it really is apparent the Adesk has been doing less every year.

I am glad you liked the Freighthouse Flats tutorial. I wrote that tutorial using a customer dataset some time ago. A customer gave us the rights to publish their work as the tutorial. You can imagine this is quite rare as Architects are not going to give up work all that often. The file was stripped down quite a bit and alterd to work for the tutorial that was created.

The Advanced sample project that ships with Revit now actually has pretty much the same elements included in it as the finished Freighthouse Flats project. The same basic lessons done in the Freighthouse Flats tutorial are done in the Advanced Sample project.

Our recent shift to a video based tutorial method leaves us less opportunity to develop a "near real" dataset that can be supplied with our documentation.

I do understand the value in having these example files and am happy you shared your your feedback with me.

[gtarch]

I am glad you liked the Freighthouse Flats tutorial. I wrote that tutorial using a customer dataset some time ago.

Cool!

gt