Corbusier's Ronchamp Revit file...

[hand471037]

Hey everyone,

I remember back in the 3.somthin' days of Revit there was a model of Corbusier's Ronchamp as a demo model. Does anyone still have that? I used to, but now I can't find it, and I want to use it as a 'demo' rendering with Radiance to show off for my Portfolilo.

[beegee]

I've emailed it to you.

Too large to post here.

[hand471037]

thanks a ton!

[BRADLEY.BRIGMAN1819]

Could you email it to me aswell?

[Jason]

Beegee,

May I trouble you to email me a copy as well to pjasonl@shaw.ca.

thank,

j

[beegee]

Okay,
Seeing as a couple of people want this, I'm looking into posting it here.

Stay tuned.

[slb]

There is a version of this available for download from:

http://revit.autodesk.com/pillar/custserv/web/service/support_4.0/faq/Implementation_Series/week_1/models/week_1.rvt

Edit: Thanks Steve, beat me to it ! ... beegee

[studioCJF]

Thanks this is Great!

:idea: Does anyone have other famous buildings.
It would be great to start a library of them.

Clark

BTW is it possible to copy a family element from a project to the library?
IE the Corbu Man...

[beegee]

Corbu man is a floor based generic model. It can be copied and pasted between projects, but you can't copy it into an RFA file to make your own family.

You could make your own though. Just draw him up as an extrusion. Thats how the one in Ronchamp was done.

I think Corb would be happy if you made him from rough off form concrete. Just add a few cracks and reo rust marks.

[hand471037]

Corb would also be happy if you made him parametric, based upon corb's system of proportion. That's what Corbu man is based upon; it was supposed to be something like a 'module' within corb's drawings that everything was proportioned from. ;)

[gregcashen]

Yes, corbu man is derived from the golden section, I believe...everything is 1.618

[beegee]

More than you ever wanted to know abiut Corb Man.

Le Corbusier developed the proportioning sytem, the Modulor, to order " the dimensions of that which contains and that which is contained ". He saw the measuring tools of the Greeks, egyptians and other ancient civilisations as being "infinitely rich and subtle becuase thay formed part of the mathematics of the human body, gracious, elegant, and firm, the source of that harmony which moves us, beauty" He therefore based his measuring tool, the Modulor, on both mathematics ( the aesthetic dimensions of the Golden Section snd the Fibonacci Series), and the proportions of the human body (functional dimensions )

This was published in 1948 " The Modulor: A Harmonious Measure to the Human Scale Universally Applicable to Architecture and Mechanics ". A second volume, Modulor II, was published in 1954.

Corb saw the Modulor not merely as a series of numbers with an inherent harmony, but as a sytem of measurements that could govern lengths, surfaces and volumes, and maintain the human scale vereywhere. " It could lend itself to an infinity od combinations; it ensures unity with diversity ... the miracle of numbers. "

The basic grid consists of three measures:
1130, 700, 43, proportioned according to the Golden section.
430 + 700 = 1130
1130 = 700 = 1830
1130 + 700 +430 = 2260 (2 x 1130 )
These three measuremants defined the space occupied by the human figure.
Combining 1130 & 2260, Corb produced the Red & Blue Series, diminishing scales of dimensions that were related to the stature of the humena figure.

The principle work of Corbushier's that examplified the the use of the Modulor, was his Unite d'habitation at Marselles, 1946-52 and recently demolished. It used 15 measure of the Modulor to bring the human scale to a building that was 140 metres ( 460' ) long x 24 metre (79') wide and 70 metres ( 230' ) high.

[Paul P.]

I am still new to relatively new to Revit and after looking at the model Corbusier's Ronchamp Chapel I was wondering about how the roof was for it was produced in Revit. :?

I have highlighted the roof looked at it in edit sketch mode and it looks like its an in-place sweep, am I on the right track or not? If it is does anyone have any information (tutorials) on how to produce roof's like this of varying shapes.

Any information or help would be very much appreciated.

[PeterJ]

My father rang me last night and announced that he and I are to go to Ronchamp before next July. I think he has never seen a Corb building in the flesh, so to speak, and wants to get one under his belt while he still can!

Now I can stand before it and pronounce.

[Wes Macaulay]

Phil - you're right... this roof is a series of solids and voids - and they're mostly extrusions and sweeps. Taking apart this roof is quite and eye opener as to what Revit can do.

[Paul P.]

Metanoia, thanks for the reply. (You nearly got my name right two out of four letter's not bad)

You said "Taking apart this roof is quite and eye opener as to what Revit can do." this exactly what I thought and why I want to understand how it's done.

When I highlight a part of the roof and edit sketch mode, by moving the mouse over the adjacent area I can see what look's like the faded outline's of the solid's/void's (not sure if I’m making my self clear) and by selecting these you can edit them. Am I on the right track or not?

You also said "this roof is a series of solids and voids", when as I said above I select part of the roof I can also see a grey block (same as the roof material) which I presume the voids are placed to give the roof it's shape. Again is this correct ?

Any more information would be great.

Regards, Paul.

[beegee]

Yes, you're on the right track Paul.

If you hover the mouse over the inplace roof families, the menu bar will tell you if you're selecting a cut extrusion or a solid. You can also turn tool tips on to do this. Cut extrusions highlight with a yellow/ochre line. There are a lot in this model !

Hitting tab will allow you to cycle through the various sweeps.

Have fun !

[PeterJ]

Hot news from a Corb fan......


I drove from Lyon to Ronchamp then tunnel to Rochester in one go with a 8mth old jamie stuffed with chocolate to keep him quiet on the 800 mile journey and I thought it was worth it....makes Frank Gehry and Liebskinrdaum look like the two bit horse traders (i'm in the middle of to kill a mockingbird) they are. Corbu of couse only followed the modulor when it made the buildings look good. I'm confused that your Aussie friend thinks that the Unite in Marseille is demolished as on the mohogany chest of drwaers in my living room there is a framed photo of Martha fitting herself into the relief modulor man on one of the pilotis taken last July on a perfect med early evening.

So who is right Beegee or Mr Wright?

[beegee]

I may have been misinformed.

If Mr. Wright says its still there, then I'm very happy that it is.

[PeterJ]

I had heard that it had been bought from the city of Marseille by a charitable body funded by the great and the good and various of the city's artistic types and was nowbeing let back to those artistic types because the non-artistic types had not recently shown their proper appreciation. That was a few years back so I don't know what has happened since but Crawford (a nearly qualified architect who can't look himself in the mirror for working in a strand of Local Authoritty management but accepts the second home the salary accords him, has, I think all the extant European Corb buildings under his belt and no doubt has Chandigarh in his sights) is usually pretty reliable in these matters.

[a.mcphee]

We compared the Revit model against a book on the mathematics of Ronchamp and found it didn't match.
It appears Revit is not capable of matching the mathematical methods used by Corb.
When is Revit going to offer proper NURB surfaces? (Like Rhino)

[beegee]

The Ronchamp model was produced purely as an example of what is possible with current tools in Revit.

I'm not sure which particular aspect of the maths you're referring to. If its the Modulor, then this comment by Michael J Ostwald, reviewing the book " Le Corbusier (Charles Edouard Jeanneret), The Modulor: A Harmonious Measure to the Human Scale Universally Applicable to Architecture and Mechanics and Modulor 2 (Let the User Speak Next). " shows that the maths involved are not accurate or consistent in themselves.


Ultimately the two books of The Modulor represent a maddening and enthralling description of the trials and tribulations of an architect trying to find a universal solution to the problems of human proportion. The maddening aspects include a complete lack of consistency in geometric conventions or descriptions and a blatant ignorance of actual human proportions.


Le Corbusier's hand-drawn illustrations are also occasionally geometrically difficult to understand or replicate and he is quite unconcerned about the mixture of degrees of accuracy he uses to support his thesis. A lengthy section at the end of the first volume even uses inaccurate measurements (taken while he was studying in Turkey some 40 years before) to trace the presence of the Modulor in several famous ruins and buildings!


He also completely abandons the Modulor when it does not suit and persistently reminds people that since it is based on perception then its application must be limited by practical perception. Large dimensions are impossible to sense with any accuracy and so Le Corbusier does not advocate the use of the Modulor for these scales. Similarly construction techniques render the use of the modular for very small dimensions impractical. This proviso is important to remember and it is in part responsible for the way in which Le Corbusier eventually applied the rule. Having developed the Modulor and used it selectively in a few designs it then became largely invisible (and also immeasurable) in Le Corbusier's later works where it instinctively informed his eye as a designer but did not control it.


This has nothing to do with modelling NURBs of course. Just thought it might be of interest for someone with an obvious penchant for mathematics and architecture.

[xphungshuix]

Hi,

Can I get the Revit file for Ronchamp?