topsy turvy plumbing fixtures

[MikeJarosz]

I have been downloading fixtures from some of the major plumbing manufacturers. They seem well drawn and accurate. A number of them share a peculiar characteristic I would like to understand better.

When I load the mfgr's rfa into the editor, top view is on the left, left view is front, back view is something else, etc etc. This topsy turvy arrangement appears deliberate and it can be found in multiple mfgr's files. I suspect it has something to do with plan/elevation views. They are fully 3D, so it's not about faking 3D with 2D views. The attached view shows a sink in plan view tipped over. It's actually the front elevation

What don't I know about this technique?:confused:.

[Steve_Stafford]

Sounds like you are experiencing the disorienting feeling that can occur when using/making face based families. Hosted families like those dependent on walls or floors have a "normal" orientation. Face Based families might be mounted on "any" surface so a "normal" orientation varies from family to family.

A sink that is mounted on a wall must be designed with it's mounting surface on the wall when using a wall based template. A face based template has a default solid that is the "host", whatever it might actually end up being. For the sink the "face" is the wall For a toaster it is a counter top. For a ceiling fan it is the "ceiling".

The orientation of what you are modeling defines what the "face" in the template is. This means that plan, right, left, front and back elevations are all different, according to the orientation of the element and its relationship to the face. This means the family editor must create a ceiling fan "upside down" in a face based template (generic model face based.rft) in order for the fan to be attached to a ceiling or underside of a beam in the project.

Making sense yet?

[Mike Sealander]

I think it's the person who made the families.

[rosskirby]

Too slow, Steve beat me to it...most plumbing fixture families are face-based, and in face-based families, the generic host "face" is always in plan view, therefore the plan view is the "front", the front view is the "bottom," etc.

[jsteinhauer]

Mike,

Well faced based orientation might be a little confusing, they do allow some interesting things to happen. For one, if the hosting element (lets say a wall) gets deleted, your face based family will stay. We've all experienced deleting a wall with a door or window in it and those elements get deleted with the wall. Face based elements can also be hosted to linked files. They will not cut their host though.

One thing to be careful of though is to assign it's Schedule Level. This can cause some confusion when it comes time for material takeoff schedules.

I hope this helps,
Jeff S.

[MikeJarosz]

I have heard of generic face hosted families (as opposed to specific hosts like walls, floor etc). They stick to everything, appropriate or not.

Maybe these families could have been better made, as Sealander suggests.

[jsteinhauer]

Kind of the point. If there is a face it will try to attach to it. When placing these families you can limit them to vertical faces, reference planes or faces. I find it is easiest to place most of my Face Based Object in a 3D view. That way I know exactly what they're attaching to. Probably should be said that I break up my projects by level by discipline.

Cheers,
Jeff S.

[Revitaoist]

It has to do with relativity. In face based families all the views are relative to the face, not the floor. Left is still left and right is still right, but the reference (the face) is now on the bottom, because "ref. level" is always horizontal. The view cube gets confusing if you don't think of it as being "top of face", not "top of geometry".

[MikeJarosz]

Good discussion. I think I understand now.