Tablets & CAD for field surveys

[.chad]

I'm interested in the potential of using CAD real-time for field survey work when we do as-built surveys and am not sure if everything is quite up to speed yet. I know our options are a Tablet PC (convertible laptop) or an iPad like device but I'm not sure I can swing the support from the boss in either direction. I've seen AutoCAD WS but haven't had time to play with it. I'm sure both systems have the juice to run ACA but I know it isn't currently supported on the small tablets. Has anyone made the leap and is able to offer advice or even looked more in-depth into the whole thought process?

In terms of software I've looked briefly at:
ACA (use in office)
Revit (converting to in office)
AutoSketch - seems to be only a half a step above using paper & pen
AutoCAD WS

are there any other options out there?

[cadtag]

Ignoring iPads and Android clones and focusing on Tablet PCs.... you could look into using Design Review (if you're asbuilt surveys can be done my marking up a dwf of the deign drawings,)

or Draftsight (free to use). Alternatively, there's also Ares from Graebert, or Bricsys. Intellicad 7 ought to be out RSN as well,

[gfreddog]

Been using AutoCAD WS on my EVO (Android) Phone for quick field notes.

But we have guys with full blown Stink Pads using it as well with great results. They can mark-up, cloud, rev, and save their notes online and it creates a second file for us to do with as we like.

It is so new in concept that our procedures need to catch up but for field visits and mark-ups its been a great economical and reliable tool so far.

[jim.morey]

I'm currently looking at the same issue, with limited success

I was attracted by the pinch to zoom and general funkiness of the iPad and its clones. However, once one starts looking at seriously using AutoCAD and other professional programs in an outdoor / mobile environment, then you're actually looking at a completely different type of tablet.

I'm veering towards getting the 'Motion J3500', souped-up with an Intel vPro i7 Core processor and 4Gb of RAM. It's an impressive machine, but being semi-rugged it looks more like an 'Etch-a-Sketch' than an iPad. It runs Windows 7 and makes the best of it.

The J3500 comes in 2 display options (both 12.1" screen):

The first option supports capacitative 2-finger multitouch as well as a Wacom digitiser stylus for input and has the AFFS+ screen (which is impressive in its own right)

OR:

The second display option has a AFFS+ 'view anywhere' display protected with 'Gorilla Glass' which makes it virtually indestructable and is also viewable in direct sunlight. BUT this option doesn't support the capacitative finger-touch input that made the iPad so lovable - input can only be done by digitiser stylus and / or a detachable keyboard.

The J3500 is one of the few tablets to have the processing power to run AutoCAD. Like I said, it is very well-built, has (protected) ports for all kinds of input / output and has good battery life. It has been out long enough for there to be a number of impartial reviews and videos on the 'net. But it is expensive, coming in at £2k plus tax.

It sounds like I am a salesman for 'Motion Computing'. I most certainly am not and I would say that getting honest data and advice from Motion about their products - or even details of a local UK stockist is like getting blood out of a stone!

There are more attractive-looking tablets out there, some with outdoor displays which both support 'touch' and have Gorilla Glass. See the Motion CL900 and Fujitsu Stylistic 550. But they use the Intel Atom Oaktrail processor, which would struggle with a lot of professional programs like CAD.

Lenovo are bringing out something comparable in power to the J3500, probably running Android. But it will be a similar price to the J3500 as well.

One can buy laptops with i7 4Gb processors and larger screens for a fraction of the price of the equivalent tablets.

I too would welcome any comments from more seasoned users.

For instance, I don't know if the funky 'touch' gestures actually work within programs such as 'AutoCAD or GIS - or say, within a Citrix environment. If not, then it's pointless going for a capacitative 'touch' screen.

Cheers,



Jim

[cadtag]

Has anyone tried the Asus Eee Slate? from the specs, it looks like a decent choice for CAD in the field.

[.chad]

For instance, I don't know if the funky 'touch' gestures actually work within programs such as 'AutoCAD or GIS - or say, within a Citrix environment. If not, then it's pointless going for a capacitative 'touch' screen.


This is why I would go for a system with a stylus. Currently we draw everything on a pad and then input later into CAD - the stylus / tablet interface would just save a step and be very similar to what we already do. If it is a convertible laptop it wouldn't be hard to plug in a mouse and work that way either.

[jim.morey]

If you're happy using a stylus only, then it appears that there are more options open to you. Check out what 'PaceBlade' and others have to offer.

I'm hoping to try out the Motion J3500 in a week or two. I'll let you know how I get on.

As always, constructive comments from other users would be mucho appreciado.

[Augi351136]

I use the Asus Ep121 with Revit and a Leica Disto D8 bluetooth laser measuring device. I love it. Let me know if you want me to come measure & model a building for you. I am thinking about upgrading to the slate pro when it comes out. Better processor and screen resolution (even though it is a little smaller screen), longer battery live. I also use an Energizer power to go 1800 to get up to six hours of work time without any available power on site.

[Augi351136]

Also.. no the touch commands do not work with Revit 2013 & Windows 8. It looks like everything is there to write a plugin to translate between the API. Not sure why no one has done this (Like Autodesk). Am I the only person that thinks drawing programs SHOULD be used on tablet computers?

[cadtag]

>>Am I the only person that thinks drawing programs SHOULD be used on tablet computers?

probably not, it's just that
(A) CAD is _NOT_ a drawing progam. I require accuracy and precision that is vastly better than a finger's worth of screen if you're using computer aided design as an electric pencil, you're not getting your moneys' worth from it. and

(B) for the vast majority of us, the power and flexibility of a desktop are far more important than fat fingers on a tiny screen. and damn if I'm going to lug around a tablet with screen area equivalent to my two 20" monitors. Tablets have the potential to be a highly useful niche product for AEC, but mostly they are relegated to being media consumpition devices, because that's where the big market is.

(C) staring at greasy fingerprints all day? I hope not.

[pauljordan]

Sorry about pullin up an old thread but, the times, they are a changing.

I'm using a Samsung 4 Tab 8 and a new Leica Disto E7100i laser distance measuring device that'll measure down to 1/32" of an inch. It doesn't have an inclinometer so if you're shakey, it might be a 1/4" off the actual length.

I've been beating the bushes looking for a program that will work with it and allow me to do the as-builting drawings I'm creating my clients but, to no avail. Leica does have 2 programs, one that will run on your tablet where you basically draw a line to the north, measure it with the disto, and it'll blueray to the program, then you drag it right onto the line you just drew. It looks like it'll store multiple readings but, I haven't figured out how to take a bunch of shots around a room, then go back to the software and pull each one out and put them on the lines.

One thing I really don't like about it is that when you draw a line, it has no value to it, just a direction.. Then when you add the length to it, it doesn't scale the line at all. Basically you have to stay on your toes to make sure you have all the doors and windows measured and drawn up on the program.

There are a few other programs for it but, they all seem to only be for the IPad. Do these companies think the IPad is the only device people use?

I can even run the Leica software on my Samsung Galaxy 2 phone and do the same thing.

WARNING: Check the specs on the Disto. Some of the older ones used Bluetooth 2.8 and they won't work with the current standard of 4.0.. Believe me, I tried everything..

Cadtag, the drawing features of these tablet programs (to include A360) normally use a grid system or manual input. Granted, when I create a file of a drawing with my Leica, it doesn't save a .dxf or .dwg file. It creates a file I can download and insert into Autocad, then make the adjustments based on what measurements were taken.

As for it not being a Cad program?? Hmm.. Interesting..

There are even some stylus thingy's some folks use but, give the Leica Sketch program a test. Not like you're looking for the accuracy in your drawing but, the drawing is just a simple representative of things in the room you want to measure out.. The distances are accurate though..

[pauljordan]

Take a look on the app store for OrthoGraph. I do as-built surveys for clients prior to adding their mother-in-law rooms and everything else from outhouses to barns.

I tried probably 15-20 "cad" programs until I ran across OrthoGraph. Pair it with a Leica D2 laser distance meter and it's better than pockets on a shirt.

You can export the drawings as .dxf, (Autocad) .ifc (Revit) XLSX .PDF, and an Image... All in 3D. Also available for the IPads.

Autodesk is about ready to send out an upgrade to their Autocad Mobile (Formerly Autocad 360) that will be using the Leica series of laser Distance Meters as well.

The D2 from Leica is right at $200 so you can make that back on your first job.

It's a LOT easier to carry an 8" tablet in one hand and hold your ldm with the other. With Orthograph, they actually just made a change to their software that has a big red button you hit that makes the LDM take the shot.

To each their own I guess..

Just checked and the Leica Disto is the D2 model that I use.

[pauljordan]

OK, first of all I realize I'm bringing up a new solution to an old thread that I commented on a few years back.

Since then I've been using Autocad Mobile and still using my Leica Distro.

For an update, now I can draw a line with my finger of any length, just the general direction I'm heading in, then I can put my Distro in one corner, point it to the opposite corner and put the measure button. With bluetooth activated on both the Distro and on my Samsung Tablet in the Autocad Mobile App, it will change that line to a nice, straight line and then make it the correct length, then, put a dimension on it that's exactly the same as the one I measures.

Then I just move to the corner I just shot to and repeat the process and in short order, I have the outline of the interior of the room I'm trying to draw.

There are blocks in the program for things like windows and doors you can also drop in at a high degree of accuracy.

The only problem I'm having to figure out is how to measure to an outside corner and I've been pondering the idea of using a stick with a surveyors target on it that I can lean against the outside corner of the wall, shoot that distance, and move on to the next wall.

Prior to discovering this ability, I would use tape measure to measure out the walls and that's is definitely a much slower process.

I still carry a tablet and 4 colored ink pen (different colors can mean walls, windows and doors, dimensions, and notes to myself) as a way of taking notes on what I'm working on.

It's made my life so much easier when trying to draw out a clients existing structure.

If they would improve the offset command to where I can offset 6" or whatever I input, it would be the best thing since pockets on a shirt.

It would also be quite nice if AUGI had a forum dedicated to this technology for sharing ideas and things we've learned.

[Wrongway]

PaulJordan,
Tablet/field survey tools is a topic that has been on the back burner for me for a while, but is always relevant, so thanks for your posts.
I see that HomeDepot offers the Leica D2 for $199. That and a few hundred for a tablet seem feasible.
I see also that Leica offers the Leica 3D DISTO for $8,295, not sure if that includes the tablet.
I'm using a digital tape measure (no memory or connectivity) plus a pen and paper. I think I can do better.

From your post, it looks like you're using a Samsung tablet, Leico laser measure, and Autocad mobile app, is that all?

The field method sounds interesting, but I don't fully understand the steps you describe, or how that is better than standing in the center of the room and taking shots in all directions with the laser.

[pauljordan]

Hey Wrongway,

First of all, my apologies for not getting back to you for so long. I rarely if ever come to the AUGI forums anymore these days. Just so happens I was looking to see if they ever added a forum for the Autocad Mobile software yet. I was actually pondering writing up a tutorial on how I use it for doing as-built drawings of houses for my clients and can pretty much send my clients a .pdf file by sending the drawing I just made on my tablet to my laptop, plotting that to .pdf, then sending them the .pdf files. I never give out my .dwg files to my clients. If they decide to walk away half way through a job and they have versions of your .dwg files, they can go find someone cheaper to finish the drawings and you get left with nothing..

Yes, I use Samsung tablets, somehow I ended up with three of them.. My larger of the three is having battery issues so I'll probably pick up a battery off Amazon and get it working again.

Be careful which laser device you end up with.. I guess the same can be said about the tablet you're using. Main problem I ran across was the bluetooth on the laser device was a newer version that the one on my original tablet.. Go to a surveyor shop and try before you buy.. The lasers from Home Depot and Lowes aren't really looking at the design market. Mine is accurate to 1/32" at 300'... I've never tested it that close but, I'll take their word for it..

As for pen and paper, I still carry a tablet and one of those 4 color pens (Each color means something like lines, dimensions, windows/doors, notes to me) which makes it a lot easier to figure out what you actually drew. But, with the tablet, you don't need that but, I still use those same colors and the reasons I've always used for each one.

I've thought about hauling a laser printer in the back of my truck at times to be able to hand my client a drawing right there on site but, I'd prefer to take it home and clean up my work with my Autocad 2010 on my laptop (Yep, rockin the old school software) and send them a .pdf file.

I've got a Disto 330i as well as the Disto D2. The D2 was given to me by a company called OrthoGraph from Hungary for doing an interview on youtube answering questions about their software. I must say, I'm very happy that AutoDesk stepped up and made the portable version work.

Makes my job a lot easier and faster these days. BTW, don't forget your batteries.. and a tape measure cause sometimes, you still need one.

Also, one awesome tool I have is a video camera that made for looking down in car engines and other hard to see places. Well, it's got a nifty 2" color screen and an LED light on the end with the camera.. Great for looking up in ceilings, behind walls, etc.. I grabbed mine at WalMart when I saw one on clearance.. Awesome score..

Here's my email (written backwards to foil the spam bots) moc.liamg@ylzzirgypmurg Feel free to drop me a note if you have any questions..

It'd definitely be nice to find a forum talking about this software and the technology it's capable of.

[Ed Jobe]

It'd definitely be nice to find a forum talking about this software and the technology it's capable of.

You can use the Cad Mgr forum for discussions of that type.