MEP lighting - Content and scheduling

[SamuelAB]

We recently switched from regular AutoCAD to AutoCAD MEP.

We want to make our light fixtures blocks into scheduled elements so that there is a dynamic schedule that responds to changes in fixture quantities.

So far, all the MEP tutorials deal with duct work, conduits and pipes. They all stay far away from the light fixtures.

Is there a good tutorial for someone who only needs to learn about the light fixtures and schedules somewhere out there?

[stelthorst]

Hi SamuelAB,

I'm not aware of a lighting schedule specific tutorial but the basic principal is the same for all schedules. I tend to work backwards when creating schedules. The first thing I do is create a "dummy" schedule to help me determine what information I need and how I want the final product to look. I then look at the out-of-the box (OOTB) property sets (PSD) to determine what information is already being gathered by AMEP. I then create a custom PSD to pick up any properties the OOTB PSD's missed. The last step is to create the schedule and add the properties and format them how you want to see them.

I know this is a pretty simplistic explanation but play with it for a while and then post back with any questions you may have (preferably with an example drawing). We can then step you through the rest of the process and help you iron out any kinks.

[SamuelAB]

Hi Stelthorst,

My first goal is simply to get the schedule to count the fixtures and types that are placed on the drawing (19 x F1, 6 x F2, 39 x F3...). Once I get past this, I am confident that the rest will be more manageable.

Unfortunately, your response does not help me and neither does the AutoCAD help file (so far).

[SamuelAB]

Update: I'm reading about PSDs. Will report back with questions or results.

[stykface]

I'm a mechanical guy, not an electrical guy so forgive me if this is not what you're looking for. A friend of mine uses AutoCAD MEP for electrical designing and he says the Circuit Manager is absolutely gold when used properly. Here is a link: http://exchange.autodesk.com/autocadmep/enu/online-help/search#WS73099cc142f4875518cef0a10b4f5d51a8-7c5c.htm

Maybe this is what you're looking for?

After re-reading your initial post, I apologize but the circuit manager may not have been what you were after. Scheduling is what you're after and the other poster is correct, PSD's and AEC Schedules is what you're after.

[SamuelAB]

http://augiru.augidev.com/content/library/au07/data/paper/ME114-2.pdf

This is a pretty good tutorial despite its age (2007 AutoCAD MEP had different directories for things like the Styles Manager)

I am confused as to what an "object" is. Normally I would consider anything in AutoCAD to be an object but I cannot add a Property Set to anything so far. The button is greyed out even on blocks (in Properties/Extended Data).

[stykface]

If you type STYLEMANAGER at the command line, and expand the Electrical Objects then this gives you a basic concept of what an "object" is. An "object" in AutoCAD MEP is simply an AEC object but there are different categories, for instance you have objects specific to HVAC, Piping, Plumbing, Electrical, even Architectural and Structural objects exist.

Seems to me the basic "objects" are Cable Tray, Conduit, Devices, Panels, and I would assume Wires would be considered objects. These (plus other things such as MvBlocks, MvParts, etc) items are the "objects" that are able to be automatically scheduled in AutoCAD MEP with proper setup of the schedules.

Ctrl+3 brings up the Tool Palettes. Choose the Electrical Palette and under "Tag & Schedule" there are pre-made default Schedules you can drop in. You might have to adjust the Schedule Style to add/subtract the items and columns you need but it's at least a starting point to get you familiar with how it works. When you click on the Schedule it'll prompt you to select the objects needed to populate the scheduling information. Once you place the Schedule you can add to it by clicking the schedule, using Right-click and going to "Selection" to re-select objects however you my need.

Hope this helps pointing you in the right direction.

[SamuelAB]

Hi Stykface,

Thanks for the direction. I was able to place pre-made fixtures from the Tools Palette and have them counted in the schedule as you just described.

My next step is to modify the provided light fixtures or to add Property Sets to my existing light fixture blocks. As mentioned earlier, the option to add a Property Set does not appear in the Properties/Extended Data of blocks or other objects (polylines...).

I think the answer lies with the ContentBuilder. Will report results later.

[stykface]

Out of curiosity I placed a 2x4 lighting fixture in a drawing. When I clicked on the device and opened the Properties Palette, in the Design tab I noticed it was a "Standard System" under Advanced. While selected, I changed it to an actual system (Devc-Lighting to be exact). Once I did that, and I went to the Extended Data tab on the Properties Palette, the button on the very bottom left of the Palette became selectable. This is the "Add Property Sets" button.

Then I placed a schedule. I selected the schedule after I selected the lighting objects, right-clicked, and chose the "Add All Property Sets" option and bam, the information from the lighting devices where filled in.

So it seems that whatever you bring into the drawing it needs to be on a System other than "Standard" for the proper Property Set Data information to be accessible.

This is also a typical workflow for HVAC and Mechanical, which is why I'm familiar with this. Hope this helps even more. :)

[SamuelAB]

Hi Stykface,

I was able to do this as well, while keeping the default system.

My quest to convert regular blocks to schedulable blocks is going ok. I believe the process is known as converting blocks to Device Styles:
http://exchange.autodesk.com/autocadmep/enu/online-help/browse#WS1a9193826455f5ff4d2e22109db342701-7d32.htm

I have to create a Custom Content File and that's proving to be annoying. Will update on results.

[SamuelAB]

Tried converting Blocks to Device Styles, no success. I created a conversion script from the Tools Palette light fixture but it seems useless. The CAD files it creates is empty.

Tried using the Content Builder > New Block Part. No success, there is no light fixture type. I also do not have a layer key.

[stykface]

What exactly are you wanting to do? Are you wanting to take an existing block library and convert them into Devices and attach PSD's for automatic scheduling?

[SamuelAB]

Yes.

Actually, the library will probably be about 5 different dynamic blocks. I do not need multi-view blocks.

What I want exactly: Lighting blocks (dynamic) on 2d plans reporting quantities in schedule.

Right now for quantity takeoff I manually export attributes to Excel and sort with a PivotTable. It's about a 20 minute process to update.

[stykface]

You can export an AEC Schedule easily to Excel by right-clicking the schedule and choosing "Export..."

I don't think you can attach PSD's to a dynamic block. It needs to be an AEC Object so make sure that it's at least an MvBlock.

[SamuelAB]

I found an almost solution!

I can use CONVERTTODEVICE to transform a block into a device so that it can accept PSD's. It does make a dynamic block into a static block, which is a pretty serious drawback.

[stykface]

You're gonna have to sacrifice the dynamic blocks. Just the way it is.

The only other option is to create a parametric part, which can act like a dynamic block in certain ways but still is not the same.

[SamuelAB]

I will be looking into the whole parametric part.

I am agile with dynamic blocks and Revit modelling, so I understand the basic parametric concepts of Autodesk.

What we need are light fixtures symbols of most size which can be achieved parametrically, so a round fixture with varying diameter and rectangular fixtures with varying sizes. I believe the parametric parts support display ON/OFF, so if my assumptions are correct, that pretty much covers it all.

[SamuelAB]

Currently following this lead:
http://cadshack.blogspot.com/2005/12/creating-electrical-device-styles.html

[SamuelAB]

My findings:

Light Fixtures - Quantity Takeoffs in AutoCAD MEP

Terminology:
Property: A Property is a piece of information about the object. There are four basic properties
• Automatic (based on connection, other properties, elevation...)
• Manual (you fill in the value)
• Location based (if spaces are used, it reads the room that it's in)
• Formula based (processes other properties or any custom formula)

Property Set Definition (PSD): A group of Properties. Accessed through the StyleManager command.

Schedule Table: A schedule that reports the properties of selected Devices. The listed information is determined by the Schedule Table Style accessed through the StyleManager.

Devices: Light fixtures are categorized as devices.

Layer Key: Objects will always be placed on their specified Layer Key instead of the active layer.

Light ID: An annotation separate from the light fixture Device that marks the fixture ID (F1, F2, F2a...).

Basic procedure
1. Ensure that you are using an AutoCAD MEP profile, preferably AutoCAD MEP (Global). Profiles can be changed in OPTIONS/Profiles tab.
2. Place your light fixtures using the "Power-Lighting Devices" tool Palette.
3. Using the Properties - Design tab, fill in the ID for the fixture (F1, F2...).
4. Place a Light ID using the "Annotation" tool Palette. When you select the fixture, you will be given the option to add property sets (see illustration). Other property sets include information such as mounting, color temperature, Voltage... You should add all the desired property sets from the beginning. Once this is done, you can copy/paste this fixture where necessary and the Property Set information will follow.
5. Place the Lighting Schedule using the "Tag & Schedule" Tool Palette.
6. Select the Schedule, ensure that Update Automatically is set to Yes.
7. Right-click on the schedule, click Selection and Add or Reselect. Select all of the fixtures that you want included in the schedule. AutoCAD will ignore objects that are not Devices (light fixtures).
8. If you add more fixtures, you will need to do step 7 again to insure that you have the latest counts.

Converting fixture blocks to Devices
1. Insert the block in the drawing
2. Select the block
3. Type CONVERTTODEVICE
4. Specify a Name (usually the same as the block), Type (Lighting) and Layer Key (MCLD-Light). Click Next.
5. Delete the connector. This is only required for people who do circuiting, use the button at the bottom left.
6. Click Finnish. Go to step 3 of Basic Procedures.

Modifying Property Sets
Property Sets define all the fixture information. It can be very simple, such as just having the fixture ID for counting purposes or it can be very complex and hold all of the spec information. There is no concrete limit to the complexity that can be attained.

1. Type STYLEMANAGER (not the same thing as STYLESMANAGER)
2. In the left directory, navigate to Documentation Objects/Property Set Definitions
3. Select LightObject, EVoltageDeviceObjects, GTagDeviceObjects, EDeviceSpecificObjects, ELightingDeviceSpecificObjects, GDeviceCommonObjects or GDeviceMountingSpecificObjects.
4. Delete or Add Properties Defenitions according to your needs using the buttons on the right side. Make sure you select the correct button (Manual, Automatic, Formula based Properties)

Modify Schedule formatting
This is where you specify what ends up showing in the schedule from all the available information available in the Property Set.

1. Type STYLEMANAGER
2. In the left directory, navigate to Documentation Objects/Schedule Table Styles/Electrical Lighting Devices Schedule
3. Go to the Columns tab
4. Click the Include Quantity button at the bottom right
5. Click ADD Column and select the Properties you want to show
6. Drag the columns to the desired order
7. Click Delete to remove unwanted Columns
8. In the Sorting tab, click Add then select LightObject:ID

Modify Device Styles
1. Type STYLEMANAGER
2. In the left directory, navigate to Electrical Objects/Device Styles and select the light fixture.
3. You can remove any connectors from the Connectors tab
4. In the Classification tab, make sure the Device Type is marked as Lighting

[SamuelAB]

You can add PSD info to dynamic block without losing the dynamic aspect of the block. Simply make sure in the Applies To tab of the PSD that you select Block Reference.

[stykface]

You can add PSD info to dynamic block without losing the dynamic aspect of the block. Simply make sure in the Applies To tab of the PSD that you select Block Reference.
Ah, very good tip. So does this get you exactly where you need to be in your situation of utilizing Dynamic Blocks with an AEC Schedule?

**EDIT** I guess it does since I just confirmed and it works great. I never realized you could attach PSD's to basic blocks. Very cool indeed.

[SamuelAB]

Yep, this will do the trick. I will need to create my own PSD since the LightingDevice only reads Devices.

No biggie, AutoCAD MEP is awesome and I can now automate my schedules!

[jschultz]

Why are you not converting your blocks to lighting devices?

[SamuelAB]

Because you cannot automatically schedule blocks, but you can schedule devices.