Navisworks Neccessity in Architecture Firms

[kmarquis]

My firm is new to Revit (although I am not) management is inquiring about the neccesity of using Navisworks internally as a clash detection tool. I've been using Revit for 6 years and no firm I've ever worked for has felt the need to have it. I might be in the dark on this topic but it seems to me that this is mostly a Construction Management software.

Our firm is small and projects are usually under 100,000 sf. I'm pretty much the only Revit user at the firm as we're training and ramping up. I've always just had a constant communication with MEP and Structure on issues I see in the model by sending screen shots of conflicts almost on a daily basis.

Am I in the dark about how Architects are utilizing Navisworks Clash detection and the value of creating reports or do people still rely on the old fashioned exploratory methods I've been using for years?

Thanks,
Karen

[Steve_Stafford]

It's about efficiency and purpose really. Revit can do interference checking but only between your file (Revit files) and another and only between categories. Navisworks is much more ambivalent about file format and what you might be interested in looking for. You can drive a lot of nails with a hammer but you can do it faster and more efficient with a compressor and nail gun.

If collaboration is successful at your firm and you (or others) don't feel like they are spending a lot of time trying to check for clashes in Revit then maybe it isn't necessary. If you start doing work where the HVAC contractor provides fabrication models in .dwg or some other format then it might become more necessary or interesting to invest in Navisworks.

Then again, finding "35,000 clashes" means somebody needs to deal with them... :) otherwise why bother to look for them? :shock:

[renogreen]

Our firm has been using Revit for a while but has yet to do a full collaborative project. We almost landed a project which was to be a full collaborative with clash detection a requirement. If we had landed that project we would have paid the money for Navisworks. I'm sure that at some point we will buy Navisworks because more and more projects will be collaborative as time goes by.

[nweeks]

Revit can't compete with Navisworks when it comes to clash detection, but of course it isn't meant to. As Steve stated, the ability to use different file formats is an advantage. Even more is the ability to control what is a clash, and to break down what elements you want to check for clashes and what elements to ignore. It is also much easier to investigate a model in Navisworks. Walking around a model can prove as useful as clash detection.

That being said, Navisworks is a single solution, and an expensive one. You might try Tekla's BIMsight which is free and has clash functionality. I can't give a good comparison of the two as I haven't really used the Tekla product, but it is free.

One last editorial note, clash detection works best when there is a meeting with all disciplines reviewing the model together. Creating clash reports from Navisworks and sending them without any interaction is a receipe for failure.

And to answer the question you originally asked, I don't think Navisworks is a necessity, but it certainly has value.

[mthurnauer]

It always amazes me when people talk about using Navisworks for walking around a model. You know you can walk around a model in Autodesk Design review and it is free. I am a little surprised how little Navisworks does for a $10,000 program.

[nweeks]

@mthurnauer: While I don't at all disagree with your comment regarding the price of Navisworks, I wasn't suggesting the ability to walk through the model was a reason to purchase, but that it was better than using Revit and an additional functionality for the program.

I think you will also find Design Review doesn't support near the number of 3d model file formats Navisworks does.

[Mike Sealander]

Karen:
We do clash detection the old-fashioned way, just as we validate schedules the old-fashioned way: you have to know your project.

[renogreen]

Clash detection the old fashioned way? What's that? If you are referring to the two dimensional views of sections and elevations how is that going to work for a three dimensional model? For anything larger than a doghouse some form of 3d clash detection is going to be a necessity at some point. Some clients (government agencies) are now requiring some form of electronic clash detection.

[Teresa.Martin]

And to answer the question you originally asked, I don't think Navisworks is a necessity, but it certainly has value.

I have to respectfully disagree.

I think Navisworks is a necessity in architecture firms and here is why:

1. Check your own work before showing up at a coordination meeting and being told by the other teams what is wrong with your model (big no - no!).
2. Have a seat at the table. If the contractor or BIM Coordinator is using Navisworks, but not using it correctly they are going to tell you to fix 4000 issues with your model. How do you know they are giving you the right data? You do not unless you know how they are using the program, specifically with Clash Detective.
3. With the suites now, if you are using two or more products anyway, you can get a suite that includes Navisworks for the same price as Revit, so why not incorporate it into your workflow.
4. Navisworks is far better at checking your own model then Revit interference checker, or schedules or a "Fresh Eyes" check.
5.Walking through a model in real time on a standard laptop for a quick team meeting is far easier in Navisworks then in Revit. The software compresses the model and makes it extremely portable.
6. Navisworks can do quick drive by animations and has rendering capabilities that allow you to make quick Avi's for presentations and proof of concept.
7. It is easy to learn! Any architecture office should have a few people on staff whom know how to use the software. I mean, we are talking perhaps a day to learn the basics.
8. When I was working on a huge mixed use project (commercial, retail and residential) I would have killed to have this software for checking my files, rather then 1000 cad files (ADT at the time) I had to go through and fret about. Seriously, I would have had a lot more sleep and slept better if I could have had a tool like this!

I seriously think this is a no brainer here folks. Don't be a one trick pony. You want to have a seat at the table and not lose any more leverage in the construction process. We have already lost some of our pull because we have not embraced change as fast as others in the AEC profession.

[The Monk]

Navisworks is a great (not just good) addition to any firm - no matter the project type. That said, the one issue that cannot be assumed (as it has been in this thread) is the creation of the Revit model.

No matter what tool is used for clash detection, a bad model is not going to solve that problem. The good news is an investment into Navisworks is a wonderful way to find out early if the Revit model is built correctly.

And with the incentives from Autodesk currently it would be money saved. We use it for checking our models before we release them to anyone. The up and downside is time. If you wait until CD's you are way behind the curve and changes / revisons can be time consuming. Because you are going to find problems.

NW can be a bit touchy with some clash conditions. Start the process early - SD / DD hand over. You'll save a lot of time. You'll discover where to make the tolerance adjustments. And ask for all 3D geomerty from subs (structural, mep, civil). Nothing like knowing where there is going to be a bust.

[nweeks]

2. Have a seat at the table. If the contractor or BIM Coordinator is using Navisworks, but not using it correctly they are going to tell you to fix 4000 issues with your model. How do you know they are giving you the right data? You do not unless you know how they are using the program, specifically with Clash Detective.
.

If the team participates in a clash detection meeting (which I highly recommend), it will become apparent whether clashes are valid or not. If the contractor (or anyone else) just throws a number of clashes at you and says "fix it," I believe the process is flawed.

While I am a big believer in clash detection, and user of Navisworks, I stop short of saying it specifically is a necessity when there are other solutions available that I am not familar enough with to say the same things can't be accomplished with them.

[MikeJarosz]

The NYC Revit User Group held a meeting on this topic last June called "Getting to Zero using Navisworks."

The zero in the title refers to the number of clashes detected. Here is a link to the site.


http://www.meetup.com/NYC-RUG/events/16784492/

The meetings are usually recorded. Contact James Vandezande for info.