Can't select Revit linked file/Shared Coordinates

[aargumaniz]

We have multiple projects with Shared Coordinates and we are all working in house: Architecture, MEP and Structure. We have noticed that some of the Revit link files move even though the files haven't been updated in relation to shared coordinates (I haven't ruled out that someone is moving the file by accident because it's hard to prove). We have also noticed that the Revit link file can't be selected. It is visible, the workset the file is on is also visible, but we can't select it or dimension to it. I can move it, but I can't select a point or line from the linked file.

What I have done to remedy this is to attach a duplicate copy of the Revit link. I can select the duplicate file, dimension to it and move it properly. If I remove the original file that I can't select, I loose all the copy monitor elements. Is it possible to transfer the copy monitor elements to the new file without having to re-create the copy monitor?

Any suggestions? Shared Coordinates are causing more headaches rather than helping us. Can the issue be that all disciplines are in house and working off of the same server?

Thanks
Aracely

[Steve_Stafford]

If you are all in the same office I don't see a reason to be using Shared Coordinates. All you'd need to do is decide one file is the "king" (architecture usually, starts there). Link the king into the other files using Auto - Origin to Origin. Model on top of the king and you are all aligned. No need for shared coordinates.

When you link each other's files into each other just use Origin to Origin...they all started out with that alignment so it just works.

If there is a reason to use shared coordinates you can define them in the "king" file and acquire them in the others. The shared coordinates are really only necessary to let you export data to the other coordinate system so they'll align with that...like the survey (site) files.

As for the "moving", this usually comes from either people accidentally moving them (training and experience issue) or that because people don't really understand the Shared Coordinate concepts things are getting adjusted in one file without realizing what impact it can have on other files. There should be one "king" file that deals with establishing the shared coordinate relationship with survey data. Once that file is established the other files can "learn" what the coordinates are but they should never be involved in any adjustment decisions later.

Naturally you'll reply with more clues which might change my observation...but with what I've read so far, you've got my reaction. :)

[aargumaniz]

Hi Steve,
Thanks for your responce but there is more to this conundrum. I absolutely agree with you that there is no reason to use Shared Coordinates in an integrated office. Now with that said here is the catch, I am working in an office that is also using Microstation. Architecture, MEP and Structrual are all using Revit but Civil, Utilies and alignment (we are working on a rail project) are all using Microstation. I need to export our Revit models so that they align perfectly into Microstation with exact survey points. To do this I need shared coordinates and I can't export it directly from Revit because they need it to be Microstation v8i which RAC 2011 doesn't do. I know RAC 2012 does, but the so call BIM manager who doesn't know Revit will not allow us to upgrade and the Microstation CAD managers who dislike Revit are requesting v8i.

In a perfect world exporting the project from Revit to Microstation will work, but the coordinates change as the station shifts and the coordinates can be more than the recommended Revit setting.

So with this said, I'd like to know why the issue of the Revit links not being abel to be selected? I agree that the links are probably being moved by inexperienced users, 97% of the Revit users on the team are first time users but they deny doing anything wrong. I'd like to know if anyone else is experiencing this. Can this be an issolated issue? Inquiring minds will like to know.

I'd really like to share with you this situation perhaps I will see you at the LARUG meeting this month. : )

Thanks,
Aracely

[Teresa.Martin]

Have you let all your users know that selecting the link in any of the files will cause it to move in all files? This is what it tricky about shared coordinates. Once you are sharing, you are creating a permanent link between all those files (Autocad included if they were originally acquired from there).

Regards,

[aargumaniz]

Hi Theresa,
Yes I've informed my users that if they select the link that they become owners of the project information for the host or king project. Even though I say this, they continue to select the project. I can't blame them, sometimes you need to select to distinquish between the different disciplines. What is pretty stupid is that Revit will allow other users, Structural or MEP, to have access of editing the project information workset from the Architecture file.
I don't know if this can be resolved by limiting the other disciplines to read only access to the Architecture folder. Perhaps I need to try this out so that no one else but myself can edit the project information workset.

[breckbaird]

A few different approaches I have tried in similar situations are
1) Pin the linked files.
2) Before opening a model go into the Revit options and change your username to something like "Shared Coordinate Manager" then open the model and check-out the workset(s) that the Revit links are in (make sure links are in their own workset and nothing else is in that workset), finally exit the model without relinquishing the worksets and change your username back to what it should be.
3) Once you acquire the coordinates in the link files immediately go back and turn off shared coordinates. Then before exporting the models turn shared coordinates on again to verify things are still in the right place.
4) Only use shared coordinates in the "king" model (as Steve called it) to publish coordinates, in the other models do not use acquire shared coordinates at all because their coordinates will be published from the king model. In other words only have coordinate information coming from one source (the king model), and only have the flow of coordinate information be from the king model to the other models, let the king model tell the other models what their coordinates should be do not allow the other models to have direct access to the shared coordinates.

Each of these methods have their own advantages and disadvantages. Hope you find these suggestions useful.
Good luck.

[aargumaniz]

Good luck is correct. From your comments, I have pined the link file and have gone in and have taken ownership of the Project Information workset, but because I am working on the project, managing 12 files (2 files per discipline x 2 projects at a time) and modifying the shared coordinates because the project location tends to move this method made me crazy. There were times that I was logged in as the "Shared Coordinate Manager" and working on the project that I would relinquish the workset. Or I was logged in as myself and needed to modify the coordinates and I couldn't do this. The problem with this method in my case was that I was doing too much all at once on very, very, very tight deadlines.

Now suggestions 3 and 4 are interesting but I'm a bit confused.
3) Once you acquire the coordinates in the link files immediately go back and turn off shared coordinates. Then before exporting the models turn shared coordinates on again to verify things are still in the right place.
How do I turn off Shared Coordinates and then turn it back on? I know how to remove Shared Coordinates but turn them off, I didn't know this was possible. Please explain the process, please.

4) Only use shared coordinates in the "king" model (as Steve called it) to publish coordinates, in the other models do not use acquire shared coordinates at all because their coordinates will be published from the king model. In other words only have coordinate information coming from one source (the king model), and only have the flow of coordinate information be from the king model to the other models, let the king model tell the other models what their coordinates should be do not allow the other models to have direct access to the shared coordinates.

My understanding from the Acquire process is that the linked files, when in them will acquire the coordinates of the "King" file. I don't understand why you say the linked files will modify my coordinates in the "King" file? Do you mean that while in the "King" file do not Acquire coordinates from one of the Linked in files? If so, you are correct because I don't want their coordinates and I belive that we should not use Acquire at all as it causes poor results or vise versa. There is a post somewhere that explains this but I do thing that they suggested to only use Publish coordinates.

I think my project is a difficult one because I am dealing with multiple projects, Managing Architecture and trying to be a BIM Manager all at once while dealing with multiple platforms.

I don't know which one is killing me, Shared Coordinates or this project or both.

Thanks all for the replies. If there are more lights at the end of the tunnel, I'd like to hear from you.

Aracely

[ajayholland]

...the so called BIM manager who doesn't know Revit will not allow us to upgrade and the Microstation CAD managers who dislike Revit are requesting v8i.

97% of the Revit users on the team are first time users but they deny doing anything wrong.

Aracely, here's the light at the end of the tunnel...
You deserve a salary increase and a promotion. Perhaps at another firm.
Just "hang in there" and it will find you. This kind of dedication does not go unrewarded.

~AJH

[breckbaird]

You can turn off shared coordinates by selecting the Revit link and from the instance properties click the Shared Site button and choose the "Do not share..." option (see attached image).

More about 4) When you first share coordinates you have the choice of "publish" or "acquire." After shared coordinates are used once for a link "publish" shows up as "Record current position..." and acquire is "Move instance to" (again see attached image). You want the King file to publish shared coordinates to the other models.
Inside other models linked files should not use shared coordinates at all (use the "Do not share.." option mentioned above) because once a linked file either publishes or acquires shared coordinates Revit, for some reason I don't understand, sets the link to the "Record current position..." which means the link will then publish shared coordinates back to the other file. And, if someone accidentally moves a link this two-way coordinate sharing is what causes problems, especially when there are many different models all using shared coordinates.
So, using shared coordinates for the links only in the King model and having shared coordinates turned off for links in all the other models means there is only a one-way path for coordinate information, from King to others. If a link is accidentally moved in one of the other models it won't update the shared coordinates and cause problems in all the models.

Hope this clarifies things for you, I know shared coordinates is a confusing issue.

[jseck]

This is a great thread. I recently had to deal with shared coordinates on a project and had some issues. The architectural model was the ”king” for this project and here is the process I followed:

I linked in the AutoCAD site plan and rotated and moved it into the proper location in relation to the building. I then acquired coordinates from that site plan which established my coordinates and angle from true north. The MEP and Structural guys then linked in the arch model using Auto – Origin to Origin positioning.

All was good at this point until the architect was informed to move the building in relation to the site and here’s where things got confusing.

I moved the AutoCAD site plan to the new location in relation to the building in the arch model. I then specified the new coordinate values of a known point in the arch model after listing those new coordinate values in the AutoCAD site plan.

After doing this, the structural team noticed the linked arch model no longer lined up with their model. I then realized they had acquired the coordinates from the linked arch model, which seemed to make sense to me. The building was then moved on the site for a second time and the same issue occurred with the structural model. I got into the structural model and set the linked arch model to the "Do not share..." option. They haven't had any issues since then.

So, I think this fixed the issue of the shifting arch model, but is that the correct procedure? Is there a documented recommended procedure for using shared coordinates with linked models? I don't want to make these mistakes again on future projects. Acquiring coordinates from a linked CAD site plan is straight forward, but when other linked models are thrown into the mix and coordinates change, my understanding of shared coordinates gets a little blurry.

I'm attending a Revit shared coordinates session at AU this year so hopefully I'll be able to share some new wisdom when I get back!