Houston we have a problem 2 (Elevations)

[jarod.tulanowski]

OK I am on a roll with the elevations. explain this to me, why when I draw an elevation it sometimes find elements that are behind the view plain. see attached illustrations for example. In this example I want to show the checkout not the booths. for some reason no matter what I do (yes even use the section marker and step it around the booth) it shows the booth. I know that Revit is continuing the elevation string and getting the curved booth, (which does fall in the plain) but this is if I extend the view.

How would I do this without making two elevations and grouping them together, and then hidding the other elevation marker in that view?

[sbrown]

Revit does that with in-place families and has forever. I don't know why. Just a bug I guess.

[jarod.tulanowski]

I was afraid you were going to say that. What do you mean by in place families? verses a regular family? I guess that is ok, but why does it do it with the new and imprived split section tool when you do a section. Thanks for the response though

[Scott D Davis]

In the in-place family of the booth that shows, do you have anything at all that might cross the section line, but is not visible in the project? (ie: a ref plane, dimension, etc.)???

[rjjlee]

I've had the same problem- I found that the families did have reference planes crossing the elevation cut line. Changing the reference planes to "not a reference" in it's properties worked for me.

[Merlin]

I'm a novice at this, but have you tried to split your section view?
John Mc

[Merlin]

I'm a novice at this, but have you tried to split your section view?
John Mc
hmmm....probably a dumb idea in this case....the plan doesn't seem suitable for splitting

[Gadget Man]

Hi,

I had a very similar problem, but not with the in-place families.

For some time, in some situations, in some internal elevations (and sections) I had DOORS THAT "WERE BEHIND MY BACK" (!!!) showing. No walls, no anything else, just the doors. They were obscuring everything "in front of me", but they weren't even inside the view range!

As it turned out, the only problem with them was, that their "flip" controls (the little blue horizontal and vertical "flip" arrows) were too far away from the doors, and being a part of the family, they contributed to an overall family "envelope". This "envelope" was actually "cutting" through my section plane, thus the door (or at least its shadow) was automatically included in my section.

When you think about it, it makes sense. Pity however, that this behaviour wasn't explained anywhere, because I had to bother Factory with the copy of my file to learn all this. The funny part is, that all the troublesome doors were made using standard Revit's door family template, where the controls are positioned already in their far-away places (I didn't even touch them...)
As soon as I opened the door file in question and moved the arrows as close to the door as possible, the problem disappeared. Since then I made sure that all my families have their controls, reference planes, invisible lines, etc. as close as possible.

I think, that this advice should go to the "Golden Rules" thread as well. Yeah...., I will include it there too, since it isn't documented anywhere...

Jerry. ;-)

[jarod.tulanowski]

Scott you answered the question. It looks like I had ref plains extending in the family. After I fixed the ref plains I could use a step section to achieve what I am trying to do. Now unfortunately I have to change all my elevations to be sections. Well at least the section tag confirms with AIA standards ha ha

Thanks everyone for the help

[TeamRPM]

What about using a section and changing all the plan indicators to white and then place an elevation referencing another view? This way you can jog around anything in the way but your elevation tags stay consistent. Yeah I know its a bit messy and probably not the most intuitive but it wouldn't be the first work-around thats been posted round these parts....

[Scott D Davis]

The problem exists because Revit literally interprets anything that crosses the section plane as 'model' and then displays the visible part of the model, even if its a ref plane, or some other invisible object.

This is why the old 'invisible' line trick worked to make a window display that was above the cut plane before Plan Regions came into existence.

[Joef]

This is a very important bit of knowledge to have in hand when creating families. I doubt it is mentioned in the help file. I also don't recall anyone pointing this out in any of the Autodesk U classes either. Do dimensions trigger this as well? Does this cause problems in walkthroughs or is it only sections, elevations and view ranges? Is this an intended function or a bug? Should we be putting this on a wishlist or a bug list. Oops there is no bug list.

[Scott D Davis]

Oops there is no bug list.
The bug list is held by the Factory. Only they decide if something is an official 'bug' or intended behavior. If you truely think its a bug, submit to Revit Support, explain your situation, and they will let you know if its a bug or not. If it is, it will be fixed. If it's not, they will explain the intended behavior, and why it does what it does.

[Merlin]

Hi,

I had a very similar problem, but not with the in-place families.

For some time, in some situations, in some internal elevations (and sections) I had DOORS THAT "WERE BEHIND MY BACK" (!!!) showing. No walls, no anything else, just the doors. They were obscuring everything "in front of me", but they weren't even inside the view range!

As it turned out, the only problem with them was, that their "flip" controls (the little blue horizontal and vertical "flip" arrows) were too far away from the doors, and being a part of the family, they contributed to an overall family "envelope". This "envelope" was actually "cutting" through my section plane, thus the door (or at least its shadow) was automatically included in my section.

When you think about it, it makes sense. Pity however, that this behaviour wasn't explained anywhere, because I had to bother Factory with the copy of my file to learn all this. The funny part is, that all the troublesome doors were made using standard Revit's door family template, where the controls are positioned already in their far-away places (I didn't even touch them...)
As soon as I opened the door file in question and moved the arrows as close to the door as possible, the problem disappeared. Since then I made sure that all my families have their controls, reference planes, invisible lines, etc. as close as possible.

I think, that this advice should go to the "Golden Rules" thread as well. Yeah...., I will include it there too, since it isn't documented anywhere...

Jerry. ;-)

Jerry,
I think it would be a good general rule; at the very least an awareness to it would save many grey hairs (I have too many as it is!)
John Mc

[Joef]

The bug list is held by the Factory. Only they decide if something is an official 'bug' or intended behavior. If you truely think its a bug, submit to Revit Support, explain your situation, and they will let you know if its a bug or not. If it is, it will be fixed. If it's not, they will explain the intended behavior, and why it does what it does.

It would be a real time saver if someone from the factory could comment here when these things come up thus saving the submission / reply sequence. I submitted a question to support a month or so ago and haven't heard back yet. Perhaps these things take a while to sort out. Is there an official form one should be submitting?

[Scott D Davis]

There is an official submission form through the Autodesk Subscription Center online. You must have a login for the Subscription Center, which means that whoever your "Revit contract administrator" is has the ability to give you access.

Even without using subscription center, if you e-mail a file, typically you will get a response back, stating your submission has been logged, and they will give you a ticket number. This 'ticket' remains open until they answer your question.

If you submitted and didn't get a reply, something's wrong. Contact support by phone, and see if they received it.

[Joef]

Thanks Scott,

I didn't send a file with the question so it probably didn't get logged. I'll try it again.
It is a concern to me that problems that come up in these forums which appear sometimes to be bugs are not addressed in any way. Work arounds are suggested and "hope it gets fixed" sentiments are voiced. There is no way of knowing for certain if some of these things will ever get fixed, or whether there is anything to fix in the first place. I guess we all have to take it upon ourselves to make sure the factory finds out about the questions that crop up here.

[beegee]

Joe,

I think that's the right approach. The factory people do hang out and post here as you know, but we can't rely on them picking up the pieces, .... sometimes they are off frying big fish.

Also, we are not an official Autodesk site, so we really can't expect official responses to our problems, after all, that's what they have a support desk for.

When we are advised that a problem is a recognized bug, we post it in the " Known Issues and Work- Arounds Forum ".

So, let us know when you do hear back from Support. ( That goes for everyone who submits a problem to Support )



............It is a concern to me that problems that come up in these forums which appear sometimes to be bugs are not addressed in any way. Work arounds are suggested and "hope it gets fixed" sentiments are voiced. There is no way of knowing for certain if some of these things will ever get fixed, or whether there is anything to fix in the first place. I guess we all have to take it upon ourselves to make sure the factory finds out about the questions that crop up here.