Shaft "X" annotation automation

[damon.sidel]

I'm working on a 69 story tower, so anything I can do to keep things automated in the plans is a big help. We're making good use of groups, even though I'm usually quite wary of them. One thing that continues to be annoying is the "X" annotation in the shafts. Does anybody have a good way to have the X move with the shaft walls?

[cliff collins]

We have run into this as well. One way is simply leaving it out, and placing a Room in all the shafts instead.

[patricks]

Can you align/lock the ends of the X symbolic lines to the corners of your shaft sketch lines? Then you could align/lock the shaft sketch lines to the shaft walls.

[damon.sidel]

Cliff - We'd like to have the "X" graphic, so leaving it out isn't an option for this particular project.
Patricks - I hadn't even known about the shaft symbolic lines until just now! That will work for us. At least you only have to change it once per shaft, not on every floor. It would be nice if it moved with the wall, so I'll try the align/lock idea. Thanks!

[patricks]

Yeah remember that you can align/lock endpoints of lines if you use the Tab key. So using the align tool, first pick will be the shaft sketch line. Then second pick you will tab through until it highlights the endpoint of the symbolic line. Click and then click the padlock. You may have to align/lock each end point to both sketch lines creating the corner. So that would be 8 align/lock operations for a 4-sided shaft.

Then after all that, align/lock the sketch lines to the actual walls.

[damon.sidel]

I'll give it a try! Thanks.

[Alfredo Medina]

Yeah remember that you can align/lock endpoints of lines if you use the Tab key. So using the align tool, first pick will be the shaft sketch line. Then second pick you will tab through until it highlights the endpoint of the symbolic line. Click and then click the padlock. You may have to align/lock each end point to both sketch lines creating the corner. So that would be 8 align/lock operations for a 4-sided shaft.

Then after all that, align/lock the sketch lines to the actual walls.

It would be better to create a generic model family, with symbolic lines for a rectangle, and an "x" inside, controlled by instance length parameters; then, nest this family into another generic model family, and create an array from the front view. In a project, this family could be inserted only once, at the first of the typical floors of a building, and then, one will set the spacing of the array to match the height of typical floors, and the width and length dimensions to match the dimensions of the shaft. A variation of this family could be used to show the 2D representation of an elevator in each floor.

[damon.sidel]

The endpoints of the symbolic lines locked to the walls works very well. I think the nested family option would be more work than necessary in my particular case. Thanks for all the help and suggestions!

[Steve_Stafford]

The symbolic lines of a shaft are designed precisely for this purpose and work quite well if we tell Revit what we want. :)

A separate family only needs a single "X" in plan and an invisible line vertical for total height. The "X" will show up in all plans that the invisible line crosses the cut plane for. That's how I tackle elevator families. The graphic of the "car" can show up at all floors but the 3d geometry of the car only shows up at a specific floor.

[patricks]

It would be better to create a generic model family, with symbolic lines for a rectangle, and an "x" inside, controlled by instance length parameters; then, nest this family into another generic model family, and create an array from the front view. In a project, this family could be inserted only once, at the first of the typical floors of a building, and then, one will set the spacing of the array to match the height of typical floors, and the width and length dimensions to match the dimensions of the shaft. A variation of this family could be used to show the 2D representation of an elevator in each floor.

That works until you get to floors with different heights. As Steve said, the shaft symbolic lines were designed for this and IMHO would be much easier than nesting and arraying families. If nothing else, it's more stuff that must be "checked" later on down the road and before final prints go out to make sure everything is as it should be.

[Alfredo Medina]

That works until you get to floors with different heights. As Steve said, the shaft symbolic lines were designed for this and IMHO would be much easier than nesting and arraying families. If nothing else, it's more stuff that must be "checked" later on down the road and before final prints go out to make sure everything is as it should be.

You guys are correct. I overlooked the "symbolic lines" option at the panel that creates shafts.

[cliff collins]

I still vote for no "X" and a Room ( or Space in RMEP )......but that's just me!

[Alfredo Medina]

I still vote for no "X" and a Room ( or Space in RMEP )......but that's just me!

I don't understand, Cliff, how a Room is a valid alternative to the subject of this question. Rooms have 3 options in Visibility Graphics: Color Fill, Interior Fill, and Reference. If I turn off the first two options, leaving only "Reference", yes, now the room has an "x" , but, it is not possible to override just 1 room to that representation, and even if we could, it won't print. :confused: <--- Alf, confused.

[cliff collins]

Alf--I'm saying use a Room or Space INSTEAD of a graphic "X", which to me is an old-school 2D drafting convention.

[damon.sidel]

Cliff, So somebody looking at your plan would know something is a shaft because there would be a some text from the room tag saying "SHAFT" or something like that? Or are you just saying there is no graphic indication that a space is a shaft? I don't understand either.

[cliff collins]

Yep--a Room labeled "Mech Shaft" or similar.

It can either be located on each Level and Grouped, or it's top extent can stretch all the way up, depending on how things need to be calculated, etc.

Good for Area Calcs, Volume Calcs, etc. as well.

[Steve_Stafford]

You can still put a room or space in a shaft that uses the "X"...old school or not, people know what it means. :) Actually I'd go so far as adding a space in RME isn't negotiable, should happen regardless of the "x", if you intend to do any calculations.

[damon.sidel]

OK, I think I have the whole picture. I'm going to go with Steve on this one: both and "X" since it is the convention (and therefore understandable at a glance by the most people) and a room for scheduling purposes. Thanks everybody!

[bittiker162848]

SOLVED! The attached family creates an array of model lines in the shaft. Specify L,W,H of shaft and the density of the array and you're done

[Alfredo Medina]

SOLVED! The attached family creates an array of model lines in the shaft. Specify L,W,H of shaft and the density of the array and you're doneErr...great, but that was already taken care of by the symbolic lines option of the Shaft tool. Once you draw a couple of diagonals there, that "x" will be shown in all the floors where the shaft passes through, as mentioned by Steve Stafford some time ago in this same thread.

[patricks]

SOLVED! The attached family creates an array of model lines in the shaft. Specify L,W,H of shaft and the density of the array and you're done

Also won't work if you have varying floor-to-floor heights.

[Steve_Stafford]

Also don't need an array of model lines. If there are model lines (or symbolic/detail) and an invisible line that can extend however high the shaft space extends Revit will show the lines as long as the invisible line passes through the level's cut plane.

Regardless the symbolic lines in a shaft are the intended, built on purpose for it route. :)

[damon.sidel]

Just a follow up since I started this thread over a year ago: we used the shaft tool with symbolic lines very successfully. Locking the ends of symbolic lines to the corners of the shaft outline worked most of the time (you and your team have to be diligent to not break this restraint). We didn't happen to need rooms for calculations, so just the graphic "X" was enough. That worked on vertical shafts that don't change sizes. We had a number of shafts that shifted every few floors (the tower slopes) that we had to just draw detail lines on the plans. Yuck. As for Steve's invisible line trick in families...


Also don't need an array of model lines. If there are model lines (or symbolic/detail) and an invisible line that can extend however high the shaft space extends Revit will show the lines as long as the invisible line passes through the level's cut plane.

I've used this trick for two purposes and it works very well:

1. Elevators in order to have a consistent instance Mark tag all the way up. I created a family with a vertical, invisible line that has a height parameter (and could have an "X" of symbolic lines or the "X" can show up in the shaft that cuts the floors).
2. Balconies in order to show overhead lines on plans. On a high-rise we had hundreds of balconies with only a few balcony types but the shifted position all over the facade. I created a family of the whole balcony and had a vertical invisible line going down one level. Then I could have the outline of the balcony as symbolic hidden lines so they showed up as overhead on the plans.

I'm sure there are other good uses for this trick. I've considered creating canopies as families for the automatic overhead lines in plan, but each seems to be unique, so it is easier to use Revit system families like roofs and structural framing.

That's the update!

[Steve_Stafford]

...We had a number of shafts that shifted every few floors (the tower slopes) that we had to just draw detail lines on the plans. Yuck...A shaft doesn't have to span multiple floors (just adjust the limits) so you can use one for a single floor and use symbolic lines within the sketch. The advantage is that you create and put the "X" in once...it'll show up everywhere it is visible. No need to do the detail line bit in more than one view.

[damon.sidel]

A shaft doesn't have to span multiple floors (just adjust the limits) so you can use one for a single floor and use symbolic lines within the sketch. The advantage is that you create and put the "X" in once...it'll show up everywhere it is visible. No need to do the detail line bit in more than one view.

True, but it is a 70 story tower and the it was different on every two floors! It seemed easier just to draw it on the appropriate plans. Maybe that was short-sighted.

[Steve_Stafford]

Well if you had to draw the detail lines more than once for a given floor...the shaft would have saved you a few clicks. I'm sure you might not have noticed getting those clicks "back" given the complexity of a 70 storey building though. :)