Architectural, Structural, Electrical, Plumbing, Mechanical

[gnl]

Hi guys,
I am about to begin a training session where I will have to cover all these areas on a single project...
has anyone ever tried to cover all of them with Revit itself on a single project of some entity - not a single family house?
If so, do you have any suggestions on how to organize the workflow and the design methods?

I am pretty good at using worksets, so I feel comfortable with them, I was just wondering if any of you encountered any big problems in trying to achieve the task mentioned above.

I also believe that interoperability with pure Autocad is a must in these situations, so I will also cover that issue.

I really want to see Revit rockin' and revolutionizing digital design so
any suggestions and ideas are more than welcome...

ciao
gnl

[beegee]

I once worked with a guy could do ALL that stuff.

He lived out in front of the office in an old post office van, and only worked at night. He played old opera records and drank flagons of cheap red wine, while he worked.
We'd arrive in the moring to find all the architecturals, structurals, hydraulics, electricals etc done. Un-be-levable.

Think he moved to Italy someplace.

[Steve_Stafford]

I've been working out a scenario for our office which has folks in each discipline. We primarily design MEPS in 2D except for S, they use a 3D design tool for structural evaluation, but contract docs are 2D. We also use Microstation primarily.

My recent project consisted of Revit architectural work and Microstation MEPS using Revit exported dgn backgrounds.

The only substantial issue(s) that prevents us from using Revit for everything is training and family libraries. Not minor, but manageable.

With the necessary libraries you can be very effective with Revit even if only 2D. If you create 3D families for key items (fan room/ mech room heavy equipment for example) then you are losing little. To take the next step Revit needs to offer trade specific tools to improve workflow.

Yes, worksets are a big factor in allowing each trade to get their work documented, but in some ways less complicated than doing the same for architectural work.

Yman did a project a year ago(?) that modeled the hvac equipment and the families on RUGI are his from that project. I don't know if the sheets he shared back then are still floating around. But it certainly proves it's possible even if not optimized for process.

[PeterJ]

On a recent project we modelled steelwork, ceiling extract fans, some light fittings and some air handling plant, just to make sure our drawings showed the client what they were actually getting despite the fact that there were third party structural and M&E engineers.

We needed to show all the steelwork in detail becasue it was a fairly complex installation within an existing frame. It was very quick to do as all the sections were standard elements, even some quite chunky ones. Of course the connections don't necessarily show terribly well but they are good enough that one could draft additional detail over the top where necessary.

The engineers we worked with from the other disciplines were very good indeed but by having everything in our model we did identify some clash issues that were resolved at pretender stage. We stopped short of getting into cable trunking/ductwork and so on which might have been useful, but frankly we weren't being paid enough to show all that in our model.

It worked pretty well overall, but we only used very simple blocks for the items outside our own discipline and of course things like the lights we had modelled were promptly changed so a couple of perspectives we had done fell by the way side. With more people and a little more time the parties could work well together, however, if you wanted an M&E guy to model a light instead of a 2D symbol you would need to provide him with a host to attach it to and a good reason for overcoming years of drafting dumb symbols on 2D plans. With this last point in mind you would need to consider workflow issues very carefully to ensure you were ahead of other members of the team.

[gnl]

thanks for your posts.
I believe that managing the workflow is the most important task here:
I would not want all the engineer's (MEPS) to build up on their first project all the model families needed, rather I think that either using plain 2d families or Autocad / Microstation as the necessary drafting tool, after activating worksets would be the best choice. I can have everyone's work coordinated in the same file that way while letting users slowly move into building up their own office family libraries... one step at a time.

I think the point is what level of 3d detail we really need in a model. If we talk BIM then of course, having everything in 3d along with the 2d construction docs would be a good option, but then I would need to set up some kind of db app that read into the Revit odbc export for the company to manage effectively thru the building lifecycle (I will soon open a thread on this issue as I am developing a simple FM - entry level so to say - app that will talk to Revit's odbc export).

I guess most construction docs (MEPS) don't need 3d data, at least here in Italy, but I have to admit I like the idea of working on a true BIM... that leads to making the database bidirectional... something I read on the wishlist recently and something I am really looking forward to.. when and if it will come.

If you're interested I'll let you know what happened after the training (next week).

cheers!
gnl

[christopher.zoog51272]

We've had decent success working with consultants who use plain 2d Autocad. Incorporating our consultants 2d drawings into our set has worked for us. We usually send them an exported dwg file, which they xref in as an underlay, create their linework, etc. then we then link that file back into our plan turning off the layers used as an underlay, and laving one the layers needed for a particular drawing. As things change we export a new dwg, they make the changes which we reload into our model. The dwg come in with the correct colors and line weights. It generally works well , with a few cravats:

1. Consultants need have be cad literate and have good drawing quality control.

2. Text and custom dwg objects can be problematic.

3. You need to have a good export/import settings file all set-up, this is very important.

4. You should work out layering schemes with each consultant, for both importing and exporting, prior to starting work.

I’m attaching a file where we used our model and the consultants dwg files to make the sheet.

While this approach is still “dumb” in many respects, it’s better than nothing. I can’t wait to see what happens with the revit building systems modules, it would be truly awesome to have all this one file, collision avoidance would be a snap!!!

Z.

[Yman]

Yman did a project a year ago(?) that modeled the hvac equipment and the families on RUGI are his from that project. I don't know if the sheets he shared back then are still floating around. But it certainly proves it's possible even if not optimized for process.

I can't seem to find that drawing. It wasn't perfect but allowed me to see exactly how all the exposed duct was going to look in the showroom. The families worked pretty good but are not flawless. I would probably do it again if I have exposed ductwork but for most mechanical I do just 2d reps. faster.

BTW, I do all my mech, elec, plumbing, and structural within revit. I hire the engineers to design them for me and I do all the drawings. For at least most of my projects. There not absolutelty huge compared to some projects other people may be doing.

Y

[tozcano.jg]

Hi, Where is this guy now? Any chance you got his contact?

[Steve_Stafford]

You've replied to a thread that ended in October 2003...a few years ago. Which guy are you referring to? A few people in this thread are still at it. BeeGee doesn't do the forums much if at all anymore. Yman owns his own firm and I've not seen him in forums in many years. Chris works for HOK. I haven't talked to Peter in many years now.