Wall Mounted Handrail Issue

[kmarquis]

In Revit 2013 I'm trying to make a handrail that only consists of just one Handrail component that would be wall mounted. I like the options with the Railing component using the supports and terminations. The problem occurs when I remove the balusters in the railing. As soon as I make the handrail composition only consist of just the one Railing the handrail dissappears in 3D. It's almost as if I can't have a railing that is only made of a single element. How do you make a Handrail with only the wall mounted railing with no Top Rail and no balusters?

[Alfredo Medina]

In Revit 2013 it is possible to create railings with no definitions for rails nor for balusters. The "top rail" is defined in the type properties of the railing, without going into the other dialog boxes for railings and balusters. You can specify the height and the type of profile. The result will be just one horizontal element. In the sketch, you can turn the corners towards the wall, at both ends. If you need something more realistic, you could create special baluster families that turn the corners nicely with a round tube and a plate to attach the handrail to the wall. Does that help?

[kmarquis]

Yes this is how I understand it to work but that's not the problem I'm having. I'll walk you through what I did. I took one of the railing assemblies from OOTB. I did a duplicate and made a rail called Handrail Only - Wall Mtd. I scrolled down in the Type Properties and removed the Top Rail and left the Handrail. I went into the Balusters and removed all of them. It was then that I had the issue of the railing disappearing in 3D but still getting the Plan graphic. I know the old way of making a railing by going into the railing dialog box and adding a series of profiles. Try to do this same procedure and tell me if you can get it to work.

[Alfredo Medina]

Ah, ok, I followed the steps that you described, and I can see the handrail in 3d, no problem. Can it be some visibility settings in your 3d view?

[kmarquis]

Really?! Ugh. That's frustrating. I could see the railing just fine in 3D and then when I make the changes to the rail and balusters the railing disappears in 3D. I'll have to play around with it again when I get back to work on Monday. Thanks again for your help Alfredo.

[dbaldacchino]

...In the sketch, you can turn the corners towards the wall, at both ends...

You know, for the life of me, I cannot get this to work. I've tried naming workplanes and selecting them to no avail. I cannot seem to be able to sketch any extension other than in the vertical plane, in-line with the railing sketch, even with "Extension Style" set to Wall. I'm beginning to wonder if the web update somehow broke this functionality. Or perhaps I just lost my mojo :shock:

[Alfredo Medina]

Hi, Dave,

Do you mean, something like a return to the wall made with settings in the railing properties? If that is what you are trying to do, it's not going to happen. Notice that in that sentence in the quote, I said "In the sketch,..." I was just talking about a short line in the sketch towards the wall, manually, not automatically. Then, I said, that... "If you need something more realistic, you could create special baluster families that turn the corners nicely with a round tube and a plate to attach the handrail to the wall. ".

The only thing I've seen that is done from the dialog box is the supports of the railings from the wall. But not the corners towards the wall. I hope it helps.

[dbaldacchino]

Alfredo, you actually can get a horizontal sketch if you set the top rail/handrail extension parameters to "Wall". I got it to work with the Handrail families, but had no success with the Top Rails. I posted a comment on Autodesk's wikihelp and Lisa replied, stating that it works on Top Rails as well. The length of the turn/bend is depenent on the new "Hand Clearance" parameter, which together with the profile size, will determine the length of such bend. So it has to be larger than zero and the railing I was messing with had the top rail hand clearance set to zero, thus no horizontal bend was generated (and the software gave no feedback). Anyway, the other issue is that to modify the sketch angle, you cannot simply drag the endpoint of the sketchline since it stays constrained to the direction of said sketch line, so you have to use the rotate tool to achieve that instead, which is very quirky (same applies to vertical sketches). The topic and comments can be found here (http://wikihelp.autodesk.com/Revit/enu/2013/Help/00001-Revit_He0/0328-Build_th328/0330-Architec330/0574-Railings574/0591-Modifyin591/0593-Defining593).

[Alfredo Medina]

...The length of the turn/bend is depenent on the new "Hand Clearance" parameter, which together with the profile size, will determine the length of such bend. ...

Ohhh... interesting, I did not know that it was possible to do it by settings. I will try this later, and I will report whatever I find. Thanks a lot for the information.

[Alfredo Medina]

Well, I could make the handrail have returns to the wall, using the dialog box settings, both with fillet and miter returns. However, the fillet return would work for one end of the handrail only, but not both ends at the same time. :?:

[dbaldacchino]

The fillet is a function of the length of that bend. I know it doesn't make sense that it can do it one side and fail on the other, but overall the new tools are still far from perfect. If you increase the hand clearance parameter, you'll get to a point where the fillet will work. Or you can tweak the radius and make it smaller, but you can eventually get the desired result.

[Alfredo Medina]

I found the exercise very counter-intuitive... you know, it´s like crossing one´s fingers in hope that all those settings combined in dialog boxes are going to produce the correct results. I would prefer to do this as a model family, or at least a simple railing with a baluster family for the ends. This is too...:banghead:

[dbaldacchino]

I agree 100%, I was hoping they would get away from dialog boxes to design stairs and railings and instead they have proliferated like rabbits in heat!

[Mike L Sealander]

That dog don't hunt, or as Elvis would say, You ain't never caught a rabbit...

[mike99]

Well, I could make the handrail have returns to the wall, using the dialog box settings, both with fillet and miter returns. However, the fillet return would work for one end of the handrail only, but not both ends at the same time. :?:

great!
hou you make that?
I have learned many things from you and your site,such as the fabric tile

[Alfredo Medina]

...I have learned many things from you and your site, such as the fabric tile

Thank you for your feedback. It's nice to read that from readers once in a while.

[lhanyok]

After a bunch of fiddling around with parameters, I was able to get the handrail modeled relatively accurately. I am able to see it in a 3D view, however, the rail cleanup at the corners is not showing up cleanly in plan. I can sometimes see it in section, but it seems to be quirky. In the posted example, you can see the railing in the section, but if you flip the section, the railing is no longer visible. Is there some odd extents issue that is causing this? We are experiencing this problem on a project.

[dbaldacchino]

Works fine for me. Maybe the issue was fixed in one of the updates. I'm on Build 20121003_2115(x64) Update Release 2.

[lhanyok]

I'm running the same update. I sent a support request to Autodesk about the issue, and have received the response:

"I’ve added your case details to the issue already logged with the development ( SPR# 225607) so they are aware more users are running into the issue."

For now, I'm telling users in our office not to use the continuous rails in 2013 since several users in our office are experiencing the problem. I thought it might be an issue with our template (even though I recreated it for 2013), but I've even tried creating a railing in a project started from no template and have the same results.

[rob.127056]

This thread is a few months old but it is the closest to what I am trying to accomplish.
The images from Ihanyok all look good until you get to the section. The bottom rail extension should not be flat (IBC code speaking) because it comes off of the height of the last riser. This would be to high by code, see attachment.

So now to my question. Does anyone know how to create a railing extension at the bottom of a run that continues on for one tread depth and still returns to the wall with no flat part?

[kingjosiah]

In the handrail type properties, there is an option to extend the railing the length of a tread. The Length option allows you to run the rail out flat a specified dimension. See attachment.

My question is with the graphics of the handrail return at the stair bottom. Anyone know how to control that? It appears correctly on the top landing extension.

[rob.127056]

Yes, but you cannot extend the handrail just one tread depth. You always have to have a length even if it is small (1" or 20mm) but this still creates a small flat railing in section. I just want the extension to be sloped but I don't think it is possible.

[kingjosiah]

Well how lame is that. I thought that was the whole point of the extension check box. Guess i've only used it with the flat 12" extension on the end, but sure enough, it does not work unless you add a value to the "length" parameter.

You could always just edit the path of the rail to get the additional tread length. You try that yet?

[rob.127056]

Does not work either.

[dbaldacchino]

Yep, you have to add a length. I use 1/32"...not noticeable. Lame? Yes, but that's software for ya :)