KEYNOTES - wishes and work arounds

[CBroda]

Hi all -

I have been trying to embrace keynoting because it is such a SWEET concept - imagine having a file of "typical" notes that are assigned to both materials and components and popping them in place. And, being able to edit them in Word or Excel and have them update all instances at once. And have this uniform over multiple projects, multiple users. Sounds like keynoting to me.

BUT (and here comes the part where I get crabby). I have tried to embrace them for several years now and keep punting on them because (as many have noted in other threads) THEY DON'T BEHAVE LIKE TEXT NOTES.
Now, yes many people use the number in the keynote and have a table of the corresponding text notes in a legend. But those of us in the residential design world don't do that. Contractors would go bonkers. They don't know from CSI. The would ask "Which one, Vegas, Miami, New York?"

Autodesk, PLEASE make the arrows behave like text notes (align to top / middle / bottom) AND let me adjust the size of the notes. Sometimes I don't have room for a wide note, so I then need to create a new keynote type that's shorter - how many do I need to make? AND let me do line breaks in a note.

So here's the question -Is there a work around to this?

I have tried using schedules (as some have suggested). Made some views with lots of notes and tried scheduling them. Can't do arrows. So no good.

I have gone to keeping a keynote file in hopes that the future will find text annotations and labels and keynotes and tags will all behave the same way, but I keep it in Word (Word tables allow for way more text flexibility than Excel tables - like line breaks and no limit on the amount of text, plus you can change case instantly, you can easily dictate the text), and then paste them into a drafting view, from which I copy as needed to annotations, or just paste them directly into the annotations. Then it's Find/Replace to update if I need to. But at least I have the keynote file, that is, one main file of notes the way I like them written.

ANYONE HAVE A SUGGESTION?
My three desires:
1. Flexible width of labels within the keynotes - is there a way to make a label be parametrically flexible so that I could change the width of it on the fly?
2. Make the leader align with the top line - I saw one suggestion of adding an invisible line above or below to force the center to move. Doesn't work when you have some notes two line, some 3 some 6, etc. Can you do a keynote without a leader and then put an arrow in using a text box? Well, the text box needs text (not just a space), so you are typing anyway, unless you try a text style of white text? Double the work just to put a freaking arrow where you want it. THIS FOR ME IS THE DEAL BREAKER ON KEYNOTING. ARROW LINES THAT CENTER ON THE TEXT JUST DON'T LOOK GOOD.
3. Can you put a line break in a keynote / label?

I don't see any way to do this but with TEXT BOXES. So, is there a way to import text from Word (besides cut and paste)?

If Autodesk really wants to make Revit FULLY robust and parametric, GIVE ME KEYNOTES THAT WORK THE WAY WE WANT TO USE THEM!!! Oh, and let me import them into the materials and wall definitions, etc. from a text file. So that I can automatically assign them rather than having to select them (yes I want it all).

OK, I feel better now.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Chris (battening down the hatches for the blizzard)

[irneb]

I'd also like to see these happen, they've been wishes since as far back as I can remember keynoting. Actually some of them (like leader alignments) are actually for any type of tag. I sometimes use Multi Category tags with labels pointing to Type Comment so I can directly edit the note in Revit and still be able to save it to the RFA file so I can reload & update across to other projects.

[mthurnauer]

I have used the invisible line trick and it does work to force the leader to come off of the first line of text. If you make an invisible line go up from the ref line and then mirror it below the ref line, it will force the keynote to start at the first line and wrap down. Make sure your invisible lines are long enough for the max number of lines you anticipate having in a note. As I write this, I am thinking about making a copy of my typpical keynote family called Long Text in which the lines are longer for really long keynotes. To deal with the inability to control the wrapping width, my family has three types: Short, Medium, and Long. In the family are three copies of the keynote label each with a different wrapping width and then each assigned a visibility param so that each type only displays the appropriate label. This has worked out very well. One other thing that I did was that I made the leader style for keynotes blue so that it is obvious on the screen what notes are keynotes and which are just text notes. Yes, I mix them together, because I may be in a detail where I know I have a note that occurs in only that detail and nowhere else. So, there is really no need to go to an external file, add an additional line, save, reload and then tag.

[CBroda]

Am going to try this now and will see. Maybe having a length parameter on the lines will at least allow for the variation of height.
Just to be clear, that's draw line vertically from he horizontal reference line up?

I also have made multiple version that have visibility parameters. Not only short , medium, long, but also right, left and center.

Chris

[CBroda]

I agree. All tags, text boxes and keynotes should have the same abilities.

[CBroda]

AHA! Did the invisible line trick right and left as well, made them parametric and it WORKS!!!

Keynoting just went one step further for me.

Of my 3 wishes, I have solved most of it:
1. Flexible width -
WORKAROUND:setup labels of different width (each given a different label type, e.g. Left, Right, Short, Boxed, etc.). You would need to edit the keynote tag file to change these widths (would love for text boxes to snap / align to reference lines).

2. Leader alignment -
WORKAROUND: got that to work, thanks to the tip from our friend from Cincinnati (mthurnauer). A little inelegant (not your brilliant solution, just the fact that we have to do it), but it does work. Still need to adjust heights but can be done with parameters.

3. Line break/new paragraph within a note - right now I am not seeing this is possible (seems to be a limitation of how tab-delimited files get exported). Tried a line break but then everything after the line break disappears from the keynote.
WORKAROUND: Make a another keynote (that is one for each paragraph) and then use a user keynote (without leader) for the second, third, etc. paragraph. The invisible lines on the left and right line up nicely with the leader of the first keynote.

So, I guess I would say WORKAROUND ACHIEVED! (at least to my satisfaction for now). I just think it is a very kludgy solution and a shame to be continuing, given the potential power of keynoting and the already existing text ability with Revit. Just make labels behave the same way - stretchable, flexible alignment, multi-line. Then all label-based items would be like text (tags, keynotes, sheet names on titleblocks, etc.). Add the ability to control widths on labels parametrically, and make instance parameters possible, and you'd be pretty close to perfect.

How hard can that be, huh? ;-)

Chris
Attached is my keynote tag file. The width parameter is just for me to see how wide it will be. You still have to manually stretch the label boxes.

[CBroda]

THIS POST SHOULD BE MOVED UP ABOVE MY ONE WITH THE ATTACHMENT. Don't know how this happened.

OK - Tried the invisible lines trick and it is working. I now have a parameter that lets me change the line height so I can tweak notes to get the arrow line to line up with the top line. Woohoo!!!

Curiously, I tried to make this an instance parameter, but the instance parameters just disappear in the Properties. Oh well. At least it can work. And in theory I can have a pretty larger line that will take care of arrow alignment no matter how long I make the line.

Now, one question: how do I get some distance between the text and the leader? I have tried adjusting the Leader/Border offset in the label definition but that doesn't seem to work.

Chris

[tschuelke378624]

Thank you for including your tag. I don't know enough yet to make my own, and yours is everything I've ever wanted - and more! :)