Slanted Columns Cut Plane

[jabarig]

I'm trying to show the proper cut plane for Slanted Concrete Columns in my model. In plan view although everything else (walls, doors etc) shows cut at 4'-0" above the floor the slanted columns are showing the full height of the column. I've gone through every possible setting within and out of the family to get the columns to show properly in plan but nothing works. If I cut them in section the column shows properly so what's going on in plan?

[damon.sidel]

I first thought that it has to do with the Detail Level of the plan drawing. For a wide-flange column, it shows as symbolic lines and shows the location of the placement of the bottom of the column in Coarse detail mode, but shows it slanted in Medium or Fine detail modes.

Then I tried a rectangular concrete column. It shows slanted no matter what the Detail Level for me, so I'm stumped. What family are you using?

[jabarig]

It's called "Concrete-Round-Colum.rfa" I got it from the installed Families library under Structural/Columns/Concrete.

[dhurtubise]

Unfortunately if you've used the Slanted Column tool you cant affect the Plan View. Best way is to create the angle in a regular family where you can control that display.

[jabarig]

That's what i was afraid of. Thanks dhurtubise.

[Alfredo Medina]

Actually, those families work correctly in regards to displaying the slanted columns in plan view, being cut by the cut plane.

[irneb]

I'm also a bit surprised about your columns indicating the full length on plan. Could you attach a sample RVT file so we can see how this is happening. No matter what I do I see the same thing as per Alfredo's screen capture - which IMO is correct as it should be. Perhaps I'm missing something or you've got a weird scenario.

[dhurtubise]

They do show the cut properly but you cannot control it.
Say you only want the footprint, which we want, then you cannot.

[irneb]

They do show the cut properly but you cannot control it.
Say you only want the footprint, which we want, then you cannot.Exactly! Revit is showing you the true model, not a BS representation.

So you have only a few options: e.g. adjust the view range (at least as a plan region around the column) to 0 relative to the level.

Otherwise, you need to somehow draw something which is not as per the physical model: e.g. hide the column and draw a filled region. This would be my method of choice, since what you're doing is actually misrepresenting the true physical thing, thus drawing linework at places where it doesn't actually exist.

The idea of symbolic lines / detail components in the column family is not going to work in all scenarios (or even most) since they would only display if viewed perpendicular to the column's axis. Which obviously is not going to happen since the column is slanted (thus not perpendicular).

Another idea might be to draw Model Lines in the family and play around with the visibility of the family's objects. But even this might not work, since depending on how the column joins a slab you might only see half the model lines (at best). It's actually worse when you attach the column to something like a slab, since then the "bottom" of the column might be at a totally different place to where you'd expect it to be.

[Alfredo Medina]

They do show the cut properly but you cannot control it.
Say you only want the footprint, which we want, then you cannot.

Of course we can. Make a plan region around the column, and change the height of the cut plane of the plan region.

[damon.sidel]

I think this is an architectural issue, not a Revit issue. I've had this exact discussion in my office on multiple projects, so I'll ask you what I've asked my colleagues, what is your goal in representing the slanted columns?

On the one hand, you might like to show the "true size" of the column. An accurate slice through a 500mm wide slanted column will not be 500mm, it might measure 623.74mm or whatever depending on the angle. Your boss might say, "Some dumb-a$$ looking at your drawing might think you want a 623.74mm wide column! Show it with the correct dimension!!" Now you're stuck on the AUGI forums with people telling YOU, "Why the heck would you want to lie?" You're stuck. Back to this in a moment.

For planning purposes, say you are laying out offices or apartments and you want to relate the partition walls to your column spacing. It would be helpful to know the location and footprint of the column at the floor level, not 4 feet above it (and it's even less helpful that you can't snap to the cut lines of the slanted column). This one is a little easier... you need grids that align with the center of the column at floor level. But Revit doesn't do grids that are at an angle in elevation/section! Tough, you'll have to make a dumby grid line. If you have a series of slanted, parallel columns and there is some logical datum (a core?) in your drawing, work out the spacing once, make a detail component (with nested generic annotation for the grid bubbles), and paste it to each floor of your building to show centerline of slanted columns at floor level. Now you have something to use for planning.

OK, back to the representation issue. Knowing the issue, having all this feedback, and being able to explain Revit's "limitations" to your boss (or yourself), there are a few directions you can go:
1. Leave it as Revit represents it. It is the most "accurate" representation. Add a note, either general or at each column, to explain that it is slanted and should not be dimensioned.
2. Play with plan regions to show it at floor level or whatever.
3. Hide all slanted columns in plans with filters or whatever and use fill regions to show what you want.
4. Explore all those nested detail component/linework in plan options for a custom family. You may be able to do it and use the Detail Level settings to show it at floor level for Coarse and cut per the model at 4' at Medium and Fine.

Those are the solutions I see to your issue. I'm sure there are more, though.

[irneb]

The detail component will not work. Because the column is slanted - the detail is not displaying aligned to the plan view, so it will never display no matter what your visibility settings. And you've got a point about the dimensioning, thus a square column becomes rectangular and a circular column elliptical). Though how did you dimension a slanted column? For me Revit does not allow choosing the slanted sides of the cut (only the non-slanted sides). Or do you mean that the display is showing it up for being rectangular - not the dimension?

Perhaps my previous post is a bit too blunt. By the BS I didn't mean you or the OP or anyone else. I mean, the BS is sometimes used on drawings. There are some instances where an architect draws some artificial indication instead of the true representation of what the physical building would look like on this view (this is what I refer to as BS). E.g. take the cut-line of a stair, it's certainly not how the model will look if the view cuts through the stair at such a spot. Now Revit's not (yet) designed to substitute all these BS representations for all things, only those where BS drafting has actually become standard for clarity purposes (like with stairs).

My point is, if you run into a situation where you want to show a BS drawing for some item because (say) the contractor would understand it better - then by all means draw it as a BS sketch: I.e. hide the column and draw some other thing as you'd have done by hand or on CAD. Don't expect Revit to BS for you, you could always ask for such as a wish - but I don't think too many people would want it (these things are rather scarce).

[damon.sidel]

The detail component will not work. Because the column is slanted - the detail is not displaying aligned to the plan view, so it will never display no matter what your visibility settings.

The detail component may not work, but some symbolic lines do. If you edit the column family and add symbolic lines that are the same dimension as the column, set them to show in only the Coarse Detail Level, for example. Then set the actual column extrusion to only show in Medium and Fine. Loaded into your project, it will show correctly at those different Detail Levels. See the image below to explain.


And you've got a point about the dimensioning, thus a square column becomes rectangular and a circular column elliptical). Though how did you dimension a slanted column? For me Revit does not allow choosing the slanted sides of the cut (only the non-slanted sides). Or do you mean that the display is showing it up for being rectangular - not the dimension?

You cannot add a dimension in Revit to the slanting sides of a column, that is correct. I simply meant that is measures differently (print it out and use a scale kind of measuring) than the "true" size of the column because it is slanted. As a note, none of the symbolic lines along the slanting sides in my image were dimensionable. :( It measures correctly, but Revit doesn't want to snap to these lines, just like those of the extrusion.


Don't expect Revit to BS for you, you could always ask for such as a wish - but I don't think too many people would want it (these things are rather scarce).

Personally, I try to stay away from statements like this. I can only speak to the instances I've encountered in practice, here on the forum, or speaking with other Revit users, certainly not a statistically relevant way of counting how common an issue or desire is. When I'm on the forum, I try to understand the architectural goal of a person's question and propose solutions. If it isn't very Revit-y, that's always something to consider, but the architectural, educational, or boss-requested goal makes whatever workaround necessary.

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