Floor Finishes on Edited Floors

[bwilliams133]

There are several floor finish threads, but instead of those helping me out, they seem to muddy everything for me. We have a national client that has a very specific finish list. This includes stripes on the floor in two different tile finishes (glossy and matte). We need to create drawings for an initial review by a third party and that deadline is approaching fast! The thing they are concerned with the most is the furniture and finishes so I want to show them clearly.

I thought that using parts was going to be perfect. BUT, we have a curved wall and therefore curved floor slab. When I created my floor, I used the sketch tool. When I tried to create parts on that floor it was grayed out. I found a site which stated shape edited floor slabs couldn't be used in parts.

Then I thought I'd use the split face tool and paint. But reading through the forums it looks like you can't turn off those elements in other views. Because it's a specific pattern, this isn't acceptable for my regular floor plan (we have a separate finish floor plan).

Because our deadline is coming up. I believe I will use the filled region tool just to get it out to the third party, then we have a couple of months on construction documents so I hope to go back and create the finish plan correctly. However, can you please let me know if there's a way to use parts on my floor? OR is there a different/better way? This is not an overly large project and modeling everything up isn't really the best idea for this particular project (just go with me on this one...it's a long story!). I would, however, like to use Revit tools and functions where they seem appropriate.

Thanks!
PS - I've never been able to post images on AUGI despite repeated inquires as to why I can't, so I hope my floor description is clear.

[CAtDiva]

I have seen repeated recommendations to actually model separate floors for finishes (rather than using the filled region tool). To me, this depends on whether the finishes are just for one plan for documentation purposes, or if you'd also expect to see them in sections and/or 3D views (for CDs or rendering). No one seems to be big fans of "parts". To some degree, you would spend as much time modeling actual floors as you will filled regions since they're both based on profiles around solids. And both still require materials to be applied to types.

Ok, I'm probably not helping on that front. But maybe I can on the images problem: have you ever tried clicking the "Basic Uploader" link in the "Insert" dialog? I have to use this whether I'm in basic "Insert" or "Manage Attachments".

90659

[cdatechguy]

I'm all for the separate floors for finish plans....they are on a workset that is not visible on all views. That way you only see them on the finish plans.

[bwilliams133]

I'd be ok with creating another floor, but I'm not sure that solves what I'm trying to accomplish. If I need to create a striped pattern in the tile floor that was 6' wide stripes across 100' of floor, it seems like I'd have to make a new floor for every single stripe. That doesn't seem like something that Revit was intended to do. Am I missing a piece of this puzzle? Thanks.

[cdatechguy]

I'd be ok with creating another floor, but I'm not sure that solves what I'm trying to accomplish. If I need to create a striped pattern in the tile floor that was 6' wide stripes across 100' of floor, it seems like I'd have to make a new floor for every single stripe. That doesn't seem like something that Revit was intended to do. Am I missing a piece of this puzzle? Thanks.
Multiple floors....I do it all the time...especially if I want to render a floor that is honed and polished...
A floor can have multiple loops by the way....doesn't have to be one individual floors. But be warned, too large of a broken up floor can cause some issues (That dreaded Circular Reference error)

[Nilasam]

What about using Split Face and Paint?

[dhurtubise]

There's several reasons why you want to use Finish Floors vs Structural
1 - If you are working with a structural engineer that uses Revit you don't have to model structural floor
2 - Finish floor will be drawn according to real life condition like the intersection with different wall type
3 - You will get accurate quantity take-off
4 - You can group floors so that strip can be reused

[bwilliams133]

While I appreicate everyone's comments. I still just don't get it. Based on what I can find, I've read that Split Face and Paint is visible in every view and can not be turned off. This is not acceptable as we need to have a cleaner looking floor for our regular floor plan.

cdatechguy...what do you mean "multiple loops"?

The only way I can understand what all of you are saying about using another floor is to simply use the floor tool to create a different floor for every single one of my finishes. So where I have the stripes (6' - 8' wide across a 100' wide floor), I would need to create a separate floor for every single stripe. Which would result in multiple individual floors in one large room. I fail to see how this is much faster than filled region, although I do understand that it works better for rendering.

Let me be a bit more clear...we probably will not be doing any renderings for this client. Revit has not been wholeheartedly adapted at my firm, we don't use it as a BIM tool, rather just a 3D drafting program. So I don't need to worry too much about quantity takeoffs, renderings etc. Also, none of our consultants are using Revit. I love the way that Revit connects pieces of the puzzle, so if there's a way to link the finish schedule with the model that would be great, but when we print out our construction set, it will need to read like we created by hand or AutoCAD or any other drafting method.

If I'm missing something about the additional floor piece that several of you mentioned, can you please let me know? My Revit experience is limited, so perhaps there's a step in there that I simply don't know about.

Thanks again for all your help.

[patricks]

I absolutely would NOT do split face and paint. 1) You can't turn the split face lines off. You can do invisible line work, but you'd have to in each and every view you don't want to see the lines. Major hassle. 2) That's not how it will actually be built.

We pretty much always use very thin floor elements for finishes. Carpet, VCT, wood, etc. We also do those on a separate workset as others have mentioned, that is off by default so it only shows in the views you want it to. You could then do split face and paint for the stripes, since it will be the same material just a different color. If you need to schedule how much there is of each color, I *think* you could do it by scheduling the actual materials, not the floors themselves.

One issue with trying to show different colors of say, VCT tile, in a graphic finish floor plan, is the surface patterns. Obviously you'll want to use different hatching for different accent colors. But your tile already has a "tile" surface pattern for the tile grid lines. So you either have to create a model pattern that has some hatch pattern in addition to the 12" grid (for example), that works at whatever scale you're using for the plan. Otherwise you have to do transparent filled regions IN ADDITION to the various materials for each accent color.

If you don't need to render the actual stripe colors, then you could model a second floor on top of the main field floor finish, with a drafting hatch pattern, set to be transparent. Problem there is that you'll have double the floor finish wherever your stripes are. If you're not scheduling it, it's not a big deal.

There a several ways of doing it, so anyone please post if you know of a better way than what I have posted here.

[cdatechguy]

cdatechguy...what do you mean "multiple loops"?

The only way I can understand what all of you are saying about using another floor is to simply use the floor tool to create a different floor for every single one of my finishes. So where I have the stripes (6' - 8' wide across a 100' wide floor), I would need to create a separate floor for every single stripe. Which would result in multiple individual floors in one large room. I fail to see how this is much faster than filled region, although I do understand that it works better for rendering.

.

If you want to use filled regions...do it...but if you want to see that same info on another view you will have to copy/paste to those views....

Here is a pic of what I mean by multiple loops (A floor must be a continuous loop right?) The Primary floor tile is shown, which was one color. The islands were three different other colors (just used different model patterns) and used the same idea for those. This never got rendered either, but for those projects that I have rendered, using this method works very well.

FYI....try split face...move a wall that intersects a split face line....you will understand why we don't recommend it..

[antman]

cdatechguy...what do you mean "multiple loops"?

I think he means that a single floor object can be made up of multiple closed boundaries, and not limited to a single closed boundary - therefore you don't need a separate floor for each stripe, just a separate floor for each stripe material. Of course, that is assuming your pattern repeats evenly across stripes - otherwise each will need to be a separate floor.

I have had serious problems using split face, so I don't use it unless I absolutely have to.

All that said, if you are really just drafting AND only need to see these floors in a single view, I see no reason you couldn't use filled regions. THAT said, in response to your comment:

This is not an overly large project and modeling everything up isn't really the best idea for this particular project (just go with me on this one...it's a long story!).
I will say that there is often a perception that modeling takes longer than drafting. In most cases, including this one, it's simply not true.

[patricks]

If you want to use filled regions...do it...but if you want to see that same info on another view you will have to copy/paste to those views....

Here is a pic of what I mean by multiple loops (A floor must be a continuous loop right?) The Primary floor tile is shown, which was one color. The islands were three different other colors (just used different model patterns) and used the same idea for those. This never got rendered either, but for those projects that I have rendered, using this method works very well.

FYI....try split face...move a wall that intersects a split face line....you will understand why we don't recommend it..

So you did separate floor pieces for each color, right? Did you cut out the main field floor below that, or have the color tiles just sit on top of the field floor?

Any suggestions for if you have a stripe of VCT floor tile of a different color, where the stripe consists of many tiles rather than individual tiles? I think your same method would work with the accent color sitting on top of the main field, just make that floor transparent so that the grid underneath shows through. You just won't have an accurate area of the field floor tile.

[cdatechguy]

So you did separate floor pieces for each color, right? Did you cut out the main field floor below that, or have the color tiles just sit on top of the field floor?

Any suggestions for if you have a stripe of VCT floor tile of a different color, where the stripe consists of many tiles rather than individual tiles? I think your same method would work with the accent color sitting on top of the main field, just make that floor transparent so that the grid underneath shows through. You just won't have an accurate area of the field floor tile.
Each tile "type" is its own floor which is just the tile and mortar thickness. Because we are using one model, structural has the floor depressed the tile & mortar thickness.

I don't like making the floors transparent imo...it just doesn't look right. If I need to see it in a 3D view or multiple views I will split up the pattern however I need to see it...but if its only for one or two views I would probably just use a fill pattern if the floor is too tedious to split up..

[patricks]

Each tile "type" is its own floor which is just the tile and mortar thickness. Because we are using one model, structural has the floor depressed the tile & mortar thickness.

I don't like making the floors transparent imo...it just doesn't look right. If I need to see it in a 3D view or multiple views I will split up the pattern however I need to see it...but if its only for one or two views I would probably just use a fill pattern if the floor is too tedious to split up..

My concern is how it looks in a finish plan. If you have a VCT floor of 12" tiles, and you want to have an accent stripe out in the middle, you need to be able to show that same 12" pattern AND some other hatch pattern to indicate the different color tile. Perhaps you could just have the accent and field overlap one another in the same plane, which should give the same effect as one transparent on top of the other below. I think. But you still would have the double-counting of material in a schedule, where the two floor finish types are overlapping.

[cdatechguy]

My concern is how it looks in a finish plan. If you have a VCT floor of 12" tiles, and you want to have an accent stripe out in the middle, you need to be able to show that same 12" pattern AND some other hatch pattern to indicate the different color tile. Perhaps you could just have the accent and field overlap one another in the same plane, which should give the same effect as one transparent on top of the other below. I think. But you still would have the double-counting of material in a schedule, where the two floor finish types are overlapping.
Oh, just have the 12" tile pattern but for that strip have the 12" pattern along with a stipple pattern (just merge the two)...that way you can tell the difference.