AutoCAD Subscription - Late Fee's!

[jay.74863]

I came across a worrying fact a couple of days ago.
I'm not sure how long this has been in place but Autodesk charge late fee's on subscription contracts that have lapsed.

Our contract lapsed 15th March & due to an administrative mess-up the contract wasn't paid until May 3rd, 7 weeks late.

Autodesk expect us to pay a AU$175 per license late fee (25% of the original subscription cost), & as the cost of subscription has risen since 15th March we are expected to pay the new contract price also.
All things included we are expected to pay 30% extra for paying 7 weeks late, for a contract that will still end on the same date next year.

Frankly, this is a an absolute ripoff. I can't think of anything else in the world you'd have to pay a 30% late fee for.

I've been trying to work with my current Autodesk provider A2K Technologies (an Autodesk platinum partner) in the hope they would be able to get somewhere with Autodesk.
All they are willing to do is absorb the contract price increase which only accounts for 5% of the original contract price, which is the bit I'd be willing to pay.

Considering we had to uninstall 2013 & revert to 2012 because of the stability issues & i have no reason to think 2014 would be any better, i can see no reason to continue with subscription anymore.

[cadtag]

Please do all of us a favor, and communicate that to Carl Bass. While there are substantial tax breaks for subscription (at least in the US), and company accountants prefer budgeting for fixed amount subscription vs occasional upgrades, the net result of subscription pricing has been a marked _decrease_ in quality and compelling improvements to the software. and why not? Subscription customers have already _paid_ for their next upgrade, so there's no need to actually put in the work to make an product that offered significant improvement.

That's not even factoring in the odd pricing structure. Pror to subscription, say around v2.5, a computer to run AutoCAD on ran in the $3500 USD range, while the software was about $1200 USD. Now a quite decent compouter can be had for a bit more than a grand, but the software has quadrupled in price. That's nonsensical, and indicative of a distorted market. After all, everything R14 did and more (except API access) is available for free.

[dgorsman]

Two separate issues - stability and payments. Missed the deadline by nearly two whole months? Lucky you are only getting a late penalty for renewal rather than having to pay full subscription price. Consider - what would happen if one of your clients was that late with payments?

[cadtag]

Two separate issues - stability and payments. Missed the deadline by nearly two whole months? Lucky you are only getting a late penalty for renewal rather than having to pay full subscription price. Consider - what would happen if one of your clients was that late with payments?

60 days late? second letter to that client politely requesting remittance. Their accounts payable cycle may well take that long, especially if the PM didn't get the bill into financials right away. After 90 a stronger letter. It would have to be 180 days late before we call the attorneys. Of couse I have many time fewer clients than Adesk has customers, and tend to value keeping them happy more. But!! after multiple months of ignored billings, I won't want their business anymore anyway so am happy to unleash the feral lawyers from their dungeon.

On the flip side, it's hard to think of a subscription payment as being 'late', since we're paying in _advance_ for the service. Nothing is expended on the vendor's part pending payment - unlike consulting where services are first rendered, and then payment required. In the scenario described, the customer is being fined, and his term of service shortened. Pay more, get less. not what I would call good customer service....

[jay.74863]

cadtag, you've got it in one. We're being fined.

I'm more than willing to chase this up the line & see how far i can get with it but where do you start?

[cadtag]

carl.bass@autodesk.com

why start at the bottom?

Of course, hard copy will get more attention, and going though your reseller at the same time will certainly not hurt. At the least, the new sub should never be more than renewal, and start on the later date. Anything else is never acceptable. maybe after a year's lapse, a 10% upgrade charge to get back on subscription would be legitimate and fair, but what you are being faced with is most certainly not. 800lb gorilla syndrome strikes again.....

might not be a bad idea to (also) post your experience as a blog comment on several of the official adesk blogs.... and ask the 'Deskers who run the blogs who to register complaints to. As a rule, corporate entities can respond to negative publicity - not always but sometimes. It did help rein in some attorneys who were atrociously overzealous in attacking user blogs and forums who include the letters r-e-v-i-t in their name.

[Wanderer]

I came across a worrying fact a couple of days ago.
I'm not sure how long this has been in place but Autodesk charge late fee's on subscription contracts that have lapsed.

Our contract lapsed 15th March & due to an administrative mess-up the contract wasn't paid until May 3rd, 7 weeks late.

Huh. I've got sympathy there. I don't think our accounts payable has ever messed up my subscription fees, but, I always get them started early just in case. For my last hardware purchase, it took AP about 6 months to get them paid (the vendor followed up with me at two months and our business manager and I had to chase up like three different people to eventually get the payment sent out... I was mortified, those guys busted their butts to get us our equipment by our Dec31st budget deadline and someone's stupid paperwork error kept them waiting a crazy amount of time. But, in a company this large, it's hard to control.).

[jay.74863]

My reseller is getting me the contact details of someone at Autodesk.
I've also posted it on the support blog http://withoutanet.typepad.com/without_a_net/2013/05/autocad-2013-2014-crashing-with-windows-8.html#comments (now deleted without reply).
Also on the Autodesk forums http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/AutoCAD-2013-2014-DWG-Format/AutoCAD-Subscription-Late-Fees/td-p/3925740 (not that i expect much from there)
We'll see where this goes.

[Richard McDonald]

It seem unfair but in most industries now cash flow is key.
Most accountants will never pay on the first demand. In most accounts departments payment is only sent after caouple of nasty letters.

If we look at it from autodesks PoV.

They have to send out a reminder letter (Cost), then another (more cost), then the file is past onto credit control and they send out a letter (cost) and another then a phone call or 2 until they get paid.

Why should they have to employ extra staff its not thier fault.

[cadtag]

It seem unfair but in most industries now cash flow is key.
Most accountants will never pay on the first demand. In most accounts departments payment is only sent after caouple of nasty letters.

If we look at it from autodesks PoV.

They have to send out a reminder letter (Cost), then another (more cost), then the file is past onto credit control and they send out a letter (cost) and another then a phone call or 2 until they get paid.

Why should they have to employ extra staff its not thier fault.

Except they don't do that I've never seen anythinng other than autogenerated emails, which come out irregardless of whether I've paid my sub or am waiting to pay it. We're talking about software subscription -- eg paying in ADVANCE for web based support and possible access to potential future software upgrades. That's not the way _most_ businesses operate -- normally payment may be due on delivery of services/goods - like my Vet or the grocery store. Or it may be due on 30 days after delivery - the way most business-to-business transactions are handled.

Subscription falls into neither of those modes -- support ends the day the subscription expires, and no upgrades or access to the sub center are available after that time. The vendor is providing nothing in advance and has no cost or deliverable to the customer.

As Admiral Ackbar is fond of saying, "It's a trap!"

[jay.74863]

While looking through the blogs I found a broken link to Autodesk Public Relations. Figures.

[westcad]

Due to economy, I opted not to pay my subscription last year.
I first purchased AutoCAD in 1987 and have kept up with upgrades including converting to ADT, then Architectural Desktop and more recently Building Design suite Premium.
I contacted my reseller to upgrade to 2014 and was informed that if I pay last years subscription plus late fee plus next years subscription (over $3000 aus in total), I would be back on track.
If my subscription has not been paid for 364 days, I would then have to pay 70% of retail price ($11,000) which equates to around $8000 aus
This applies to upgrade between versions 2008 and 2013. This seems a little harsh as the price is the same price to upgrade from 2008 as it is for 2013
No loyalty, typical Autodesk.

[cadtag]

Huhm, Adesk wants to charge their customers late fees, but this year the 'fiasco' of opt-out/opt-in meant that for many subscription customers their 2014 upgrade was not available until months after the 'official' release. Who thinks we should get a discount or next years, or a three month extension to our existing subscription contract terms?