gregcashen
2003-11-07, 09:39 PM
If you really want to get your panties in a bunch, read the EULA. I am pretty sure that you will find that you are merely renting the privelege to use the software so long as Autodesk decides to support it. :evil:
At least Autodesk is letting you purchase a license and providing the software for free...Microsoft apps require you to rent the right to use the software, state cleary that you are not purchasing anything and yet they charge you if you lose the CD and need another...shouldn't the CD be free for anyone who has already purchased the software license? :?:
While I'm on it, music cd's also state that you are purchasing a license to listen to the music, not actually purchasing the music, but they will not let you trade in the cd for a new free on if it gets scratched or skips. Shouldn't the media be free if you have already purchased the license to listen to the music contained in it?? :?: :?:
By the way, almost every time the software companies get taken to court on these issues, they lose, so be aware that you are effectively signing an invalid contract when you open most software. :wink:
Interesting side note: more traditional product companies have gotten into the act. A router manufacturer has included a statement on the packaging of a set of templates stating that the buyer has merely "licensed" the templates "for use".
I am considering including a similar clause on all of my drawings that limits the client's rights to use the design so long as I support that design and remain :twisted: in business. Then, several years later, when I decide I no longer like wood buildings I will start using only steel and make all of my old clients either abandon their house or pay me to "upgrade" them!
gregcashen
2003-11-08, 10:29 AM
I asked my reseller about the subscription:
what happens if I no longer want to pay subscription? can I still use the software?( without all the updates, new versions,...)
I looked here in the forum and if I understand it all, its yes, I can use the software as it is at that moment but am no longer entiteld to recieve updates.
Since I dident recieve any cd I'm wondering: have I bought revit or did I bought a subscription to use the software.
My reseller says I bought revit and a 1 year subscription.
So how does this all work then?
Your subscription fee entitles you to all new updates/upgrades within your subscription period. If you decline to renew your subscription, you retain the right to use the software in its current version.
Revit is basically free, except for printing, exporting and saving. That is what your license gets you. :wink:
MartyC
2003-11-08, 11:00 AM
Hi
Sure the CD and the packaging is only worth 5 bucks, but dont you think the groovy little printed tutorial is worth at least 7000? :shock:
I must say that I used to have that feeling of being taken advantage of in the most intimate way when paying subscription fees for software, especially when a CD is about 60c value. But then came Revit, and I can honestly see an almost tangeable connection between subscription and profit, even though the actual value of the software is intangeable.
When I get really panicky I read my Architect/Client Agreement and remind myself that the client comissioning me is granted a single licence to use the design once, that they do not own the design, and copyright is retained by me. Any variation of these terms is by prior arrangement only, and would probably attract an additional fee.
Really, I think the system is pretty fair, and here at least the ongoing subscription/maintenance fee is reasonably affordable especially for a sole practitioner such as myself where cost is critical.
I would like a groovy Revit desk toy though, must put that on the wishlist. :)
Cheers M
gregcashen
2003-11-09, 03:53 AM
I have posted the Revit EULA for educational purposes...don't get me wrong, it is no worse than any other, but anyone who actually accepts this and thinks that these things, as written by most companies today, are not complete garbage is a little :screwy:
:D
AUTODESK SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT
English Language Worldwide
IMPORTANT, PLEASE READ THIS FIRST. THIS IS A LICENSE AGREEMENT.
AUTODESK IS WILLING TO LICENSE THE ACCOMPANYING SOFTWARE TO YOU ONLY UPON THE CONDITION THAT YOU ACCEPT ALL OF THE TERMS CONTAINED IN THIS LICENSE AGREEMENT AND ANY SUPPLEMENTARY OR UNIQUE LICENSE TERMS INCLUDED HEREWITH (“AGREEMENT”).
READ THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT CAREFULLY BEFORE SELECTING THE “I ACCEPT THE TERMS IN THE LICENSE AGEEMENT” BUTTON AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE. PLEASE USE THE SCROLL BAR ON THE RIGHT TO READ THE REST OF THIS AGREEMENT. BY SELECTING THE THIS BUTTON, YOU ARE CONSENTING TO BE BOUND BY ALL THE TERMS OF THE AGREEMENT AND THE SOFTWARE WILL BE INSTALLED.
IF YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO BE BOUND BY THIS AGREEMENT AND YOU DO NOT AGREE TO ALL OF ITS TERMS AND CONDITIONS, SELECT “I DO NOT ACCEPT THE TERMS OF THE LICENSE AGREEMENT” - WHICH WILL CANCEL THE INSTALLATION OF THE SOFTWARE -- AND, WITHIN THIRTY (30) DAYS FROM PURCHASE, CONTACT THE LOCATION WHERE YOU ACQUIRED IT FOR A FULL REFUND, IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE RELEVANT RETURN POLICY.
YOUR USE OF THE SOFTWARE ALSO INDICATES YOUR ASSENT TO BE BOUND BY THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT.
COPYING OR USE OF THIS SOFTWARE OR ITS DOCUMENTATION EXCEPT AS PERMITTED BY THIS AGREEMENT IS UNAUTHORIZED AND IS COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT UNDER THE LAWS OF YOUR COUNTRY. IF YOU COPY OR USE THIS SOFTWARE OR ITS DOCUMENTATION WITHOUT PERMISSION OF AUTODESK, YOU ARE VIOLATING THE LAW. YOU MAY BE LIABLE TO AUTODESK FOR DAMAGES, AND YOU MAY BE SUBJECT TO CRIMINAL PENALTIES.
So copying the software or it's documentation is bad? I sure hope Autodesk doesn't mind me "copying" this documentation here. I am getting a little worried... :(
NOTE: IF THIS COPY OF THE SOFTWARE IS DESIGNATED FOR DEMONSTRATION AND EVALUATION USE, THE FOLLOWING TWO PARAGRAPHS ALSO APPLY TO YOU:
THIS SOFTWARE IS MADE AVAILABLE FOR A 30-DAY EVALUATION PURPOSES ONLY, UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED BY AUTODESK IN WRITING. TO EXTEND YOUR USE OF THE SOFTWARE, YOU MUST CONTACT AUTODESK OR AN AUTODESK AUTHORIZED RESELLER TO REMIT THE PURCHASE PRICE AND RECEIVE YOUR AUTHORIZATION CODE OR NEW PAID-IN-FULL COPY ENTITLING YOU TO THE COMMERCIAL LICENSE RIGHTS GRANTED BELOW.
So much for using the demo version as a standalone viewer as discussed in this thread (http://www.zoogdesign.com/forums/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1495&highlight=). :cry:
DURING THE EVALUATION PERIOD, YOU MAY MAKE COPIES OF THE SOFTWARE ONLY TO EVALUATE IT.
Now I am confused...if I do not own the software, it is okay to copy it but once I buy it I can no longer copy it? :puffy:
USE DURING THE EVALUATION PERIOD FOR ANY OTHER PURPOSE, INCLUDING COMPETITIVE ANALYSIS, OR COMMERCIAL USE, IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.
Huh?!? So I am not allowed to compare Revit to Archicad or ADT even until I have purchased it...and presumably them as well...can't wait to see what their return policy looks like! :shock:
UPON YOUR PURCHASE OF A COMMERCIAL LICENSE FOR THIS SOFTWARE, USE OF THE SOFTWARE SHALL NO LONGER BE SUBJECT TO THE FOREGOING RESTRICTION.
1. Grant of Commercial License.
If you have purchased a commercial license, Autodesk, Inc. (“Autodesk”) grants you a nonexclusive, nontransferable license to use this program, including all electronic files that you download or install by other media, (the “Software”) and its manual and other accompanying material (“Documentation”) with equipment owned by you or under your control, according to the terms and conditions of this Agreement. You may deploy this Software in one of the following ways, depending upon the license you have purchased:
(i) Individual. If you have an Individual license, you may install one copy of the Software onto a hard disk or other storage device for use on a single computer ;
Please nobody tell Autodesk that I have Revit installed on my laptop and my home workstation. Thanks.
(ii) Site. If you have a Site license, the Software may be used on the designated number of machines at your designated site, on computers connected to your network; or
(iii) External Floating. If you have an External Floating license, the Software may be used on a single computer by one person at a time designated from time to time by you. .
Educational License: If this Software is designated for Educational use, you may use it only for the purpose of instruction and for personal learning purposes, and for no other purpose. Software designated for Educational use may not be used for commercial, professional, or for-profit purposes.
Backup Copy: Regardless of which version of the Software you have acquired, you may make one archival (backup) copy of the Software. Such archival copy may not be installed on another computer, unless such computer is a partitioned drive of a server to which only the authorized user has access. In any event, the archival copy may not be used or installed as long as another copy of the Software is installed on any computer.
Seriously people, don't tell Autodesk about my laptop or I'm screwed!
If the Documentation is in printed form, it may not be copied. If the Documentation is in electronic form, it may not be duplicated electronically, however, you may print out one (1) copy, which may not be copied.
I am totally going to get it for posting this EULA here!! :shock:
Additional Installation: Except with Educational and Student Versions, you may make a second copy of the Software on the hard disk of a second computer owned by you or under your control provided that (1) the original and second copies are used only by the same person; (2) the second copy is installed and used only on a notebook computer, home computer, or other non-server computer away from your usual work location for the purpose of enabling you to perform work while away from your usual work location; (3) only one of the Software copies is in use at any one time; (4) the second copy of the Software is used exclusively with the copy protection device (if any) supplied with the Software, and (5) the Software is not licensed and/or labeled as an Educational Version or Student Version.
Phew, that was a close one. Alright, feel free to tell Autodesk about the laptop. I guess it was much ado about nothing. :roll:
Authorization Code: If this Software requires an authorization code, you must register your purchase of this Software with Autodesk before an authorization code shall be issued to you. The Software automatically collects technical information concerning the Autodesk product you are installing and the computer onto which you are installing the Software, including, without limitation the hardware identification, regional settings, and version of your operating system. Along with other information provided by you and required by Autodesk to complete product registration, it will be used by Autodesk and its affiliates to issue your authorization code and to better serve you. Autodesk shall maintain your registration details in conformance with its privacy policy.
License Term: Subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement, the license to use the Software is perpetual, unless the Software is designated as a fixed-term license, a limited duration license or a rental license, and in such case the term of the license shall be the term for which you have paid.
FOR STUDENT LICENSE ONLY
1. Grant of License.
Autodesk, Inc. (“Autodesk”) grants you a nonexclusive, nontransferable license to use this program, including all electronic files that you download or install by other media, (the “Software”) and its electronic manual and other accompanying material (“Documentation”) with equipment owned by you or under your control, according to the terms and conditions of this Agreement for the term period provided by Autodesk which begins the date on which you install the Software. This Agreement permits a single user to install and use the Software on only one computer at one location at any one time. Use of this Software beyond the stated period, or any attempt to defeat the disabling function in the Software is an unauthorized use and shall constitute a violation of this Agreement and copyright laws.
This Software may be used only by the degree-seeking student or, faculty or staff member of the institutions referred to below, who acquired it AND only for study and instruction and not for commercial, professional, or for-profit purposes. Student versions of the Software may not be used by an educational institution in a lab environment for instruction purposes. A degree-seeking student is defined as a student currently enrolled in a secondary education institution or a student currently in at least three (3) credit hours in a degree-granting program or who can confirm current enrollment in at least a nine (9) month certificate-granting at a college or university.
Backup Copy: You may make only one archival (backup) copy of the Software. Such archival copy may not be installed on another computer, unless such computer is a partitioned drive of a server to which only the authorized user has access. In any event, the archival copy may not be used or installed as long as another copy of the Software is installed on any computer. If the Documentation is in printed form, it may not be copied. If the Documentation is in electronic form, you may print out one (1) copy, which may not be copied.
Authorization Code: If this Software requires an authorization code, you must register your purchase of this Software with Autodesk before an authorization code shall be issued to you. The Software automatically collects technical information concerning the Autodesk product you are installing and the computer onto which you are installing the Software, including, without limitation the hardware identification, regional settings, and version of your operating system. Along with other information provided by you and required by Autodesk to complete product registration, it will be used by Autodesk and its affiliates to issue your authorization code and to better serve you. Autodesk shall maintain your registration details in conformance with its privacy policy.
NOTE: ALL REMAINING PROVISIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT APPLY TO ALL VERSIONS OF THIS SOFTWARE.
2. RESTRICTIONS.
You May Not:
1. copy or use the Software or Documentation except as permitted by this Agreement.
2. reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the Software except to the extent permitted by law where this is indispensable to obtain the information necessary to achieve interoperability of an independently created program with the Software or with another program and such information is not readily available from Autodesk or elsewhere. You may not decompile, reverse engineer, or dissemble, the Software if such information is available by licensing any Autodesk Software Developer's Kit.
3. distribute, rent, loan, lease, sell, sublicense, or otherwise transfer all or part of the Software, Documentation or any rights granted hereunder to any other person without the prior written consent of Autodesk.
4. install or use the Software over the Internet, including, without limitation, use in connection with a Web hosting or similar service, or make the Software available to third parties via the Internet on your computer system or otherwise.
5. remove, alter, or obscure any proprietary notices, labels, or marks from the Software or Documentation.
6. modify, translate, adapt, arrange, or create derivative works based on the Software or Documentation for any purpose.
7. utilize any equipment, device, software, or other means designed to circumvent or remove any form of copy protection used by Autodesk in connection with the Software, or use the Software together with any, authorization code, serial number, or other copy protection device not supplied by Autodesk directly or through an Authorized Autodesk Reseller.
8. export the Software or Documentation in violation of U.S. or other applicable export control laws.
9. use the Software or Documentation outside of the country of purchase, unless the Software and Documentation were purchased in the European Economic Area (“E.E.A.”) in which case use throughout the E.E.A. is permitted.
3. COPYRIGHT.
Title and copyrights to the Software, Documentation and accompanying materials, if any, and any copies made by you remain with Autodesk and its licensors. The structure, organization, and code of the Software are valuable trade secrets of Autodesk and its licensors. Unauthorized copying of the Software or Documentation, or failure to comply with the above restrictions, will result in automatic termination of this Agreement. This Agreement does not grant you any intellectual property rights.
4. GENERAL LIMITED WARRANTY.
Autodesk warrants that the Software will provide the facilities and functions generally described in the Documentation and that the media on which the Software is furnished, if any, the Documentation accompanying the Software, will be free from defects in materials and workmanship under normal use. EXCEPT FOR THE ABOVE EXPRESS LIMITED WARRANTIES, AUTODESK MAKES AND YOU RECEIVE NO WARRANTIES, EXPRESS, IMPLIED, STATUTORY, OR IN ANY COMMUNICATION WITH YOU, AND AUTODESK SPECIFICALLY DISCLAIMS ANY OTHER WARRANTY INCLUDING THE IMPLIED WARRANTY OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. AUTODESK DOES NOT WARRANT THAT THE OPERATION OF THE SOFTWARE WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED OR ERROR FREE. The above exclusions may not apply to you as some jurisdictions do not allow the exclusion of implied warranties. In addition to the above warranty rights, you may also have other rights, which vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.
Autodesk's entire liability and your exclusive remedy under the warranties made in this Agreement will be, at Autodesk's option, to attempt to correct or work around errors, to replace the defective media, if any; Documentation; or to refund the purchase price and terminate this license. This remedy is subject to the return of the defective media, or Documentation, with a copy of your receipt to your local Autodesk office or the Authorized Autodesk Reseller from whom it was obtained within ninety (90) days from the date of its delivery to you..
5. DISCLAIMER.
COMPUTER-AIDED DESIGN SOFTWARE AND OTHER TECHNICAL SOFTWARE ARE TOOLS INTENDED TO BE USED BY TRAINED PROFESSIONALS ONLY. THEY ARE NOT SUBSTITUTES FOR YOUR PROFESSIONAL JUDGMENT. COMPUTER-AIDED DESIGN SOFTWARE AND OTHER TECHNICAL SOFTWARE ARE INTENDED TO ASSIST WITH PRODUCT DESIGN AND ARE NOT SUBSTITUTES FOR INDEPENDENT TESTING OF PRODUCT STRESS, SAFETY AND UTILITY. DUE TO THE LARGE VARIETY OF POTENTIAL APPLICATIONS FOR THE SOFTWARE, THE SOFTWARE HAS NOT BEEN TESTED IN ALL SITUATIONS UNDER WHICH IT MAY BE USED. AUTODESK SHALL NOT BE LIABLE IN ANY MANNER WHATSOEVER FOR THE RESULTS OBTAINED THROUGH THE USE OF THE SOFTWARE. PERSONS USING THE SOFTWARE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SUPERVISION, MANAGEMENT AND CONTROL OF THE SOFTWARE. THIS RESPONSIBILITY INCLUDES, BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO, THE DETERMINATION OF APPROPRIATE USES FOR THE SOFTWARE AND THE SELECTION OF THE SOFTWARE AND OTHER PROGRAMS TO ACHIEVE INTENDED RESULTS. PERSONS USING THE SOFTWARE ARE ALSO RESPONSIBLE FOR ESTABLISHING THE ADEQUACY OF INDEPENDENT PROCEDURES FOR TESTING THE RELIABILITY AND ACCURACY OF ANY PROGRAM OUTPUT, INCLUDING ALL ITEMS DESIGNED BY USING THE SOFTWARE.
6. LIMITATION OF LIABILITY.
IN NO EVENT WILL AUTODESK OR ANY OF ITS LICENSORS BE LIABLE FOR ANY LOSS OR DAMAGES OF ANY KIND, INCLUDING LOSS OF DATA, LOST PROFITS, COST OF COVER, OR OTHER SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, OR INDIRECT DAMAGES ARISING OUT OF THE USE OR INABILITY TO USE THE SOFTWARE OR DOCUMENTATION, HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY. THIS LIMITATION WILL APPLY EVEN IF AUTODESK OR ANY AUTODESK RESELLER HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH LOSS OR DAMAGE. YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE LICENSE FEE REFLECTS THIS ALLOCATION OF RISK.
AUTODESK SHALL HAVE NO RESPONSIBILITY OR LIABILITY WHATSOEVER ARISING FROM LOSS OR THEFT OF THE SOFTWARE OR OF ANY COPY PROTECTION DEVICE WITH WHICH THE SOFTWARE IS SUPPLIED. SPECIFICALLY, AUTODESK SHALL NOT BE OBLIGATED TO REPLACE ANY LOST OR STOLEN SOFTWARE OR COPY PROTECTION DEVICE/CODE. YOU ARE SOLELY RESPONSIBLE FOR SAFEGUARDING THE SOFTWARE AND ANY COPY PROTECTION DEVICE/CODE FROM LOSS OR THEFT AND PROTECTING YOUR INVESTMENT THROUGH INSURANCE OR OTHERWISE.
THE ABOVE LIMITATIONS MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU BECAUSE SOME JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE LIMITATION OR EXCLUSION OF LIABILITY FOR INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES.
7. RESTRICTED RIGHTS FOR U.S. GOVERNMENT CUSTOMERS.
The Software and Documentation is provided with RESTRICTED RIGHTS. Use, duplication, or disclosure by the United States Government or any agency, department, or instrumentality thereof is subject to the restrictions set forth in the Commercial Computer Software -- Restricted Rights clause at FAR 52.227-19 or the Commercial Computer Software -- Licensing clause at NASA FAR Supplement 1852.227-86. Manufacturer is Autodesk, Inc., 111 McInnis Parkway, San Rafael, California 94903.
8. GENERAL.
A. This Agreement and the license granted hereby shall terminate without further notice or action by Autodesk if you, the licensee, become bankrupt, make an arrangement with your creditors or go into liquidation.
Great, so if I go bankrupt, Autodesk reserves the right to take away the tools I would need in order to become solvent again?
B. This Agreement shall not be governed by the UN Convention on Contracts for the Sale of Goods. This Agreement shall be governed by the laws of the State of California, U.S.A., including its Uniform Commercial Code without reference to conflict-of-laws principles. This Agreement is the entire agreement between us and supersedes any other communications or advertising with respect to the Software and Documentation.
C. If any provision of this Agreement is found to be invalid or otherwise unenforceable, the further conditions of this Agreement will remain fully effective and the parties will be bound by obligations which approximate, as closely as possible, the effect of the provision found invalid or unenforceable, without being themselves invalid or unenforceable.
Richard McCarthy
2003-11-10, 03:45 AM
Just a side note, not really "related" to Revit...
This is what I don't get. Now, this culture of PAYING to get my buggy software fixed is really kinda PERVERSED :evil:
I mean, a lot of software now forced the users to only "rent" the software, forcing them to pay for "services" of bug ridden product. Granted, that some software are fairly bugless and only have update for NEW features, but paying for the mistake that developer made is just not right.
Imagine you just bought your NEW house and the roof is leaky and the foundation is cracking and seeping with water, and the builder forced you to pay him for the mistakes he has done so he can fix it later.
:evil: :evil:
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