OOTB Revit Materials: Poche, Phase - Existing........WHY?

[lbjorn]

I have always been baffled by the out-of-the-box materials that Revit includes. Not only is there naming inconsistencies, but there are some materials that i just don't understand. Trying to give Autodesk the benefit of the doubt, I am reaching out to the masses to search for answers. So please, someone tell me that there is a purpose for the following materials:

Poche
Phase - Existing
Phase - Demolition
Phase - Temporary
Phase - New

FYI, I have full understanding of Revit phasing and have 8 years of Revit experience, which is probably why these materials seem to bother me so much. Any insight? Am I missing something?

[CADastrophe]

The Phase materials are typically associated with Phasing Graphics Overrides to apply a uniform, standard look to all of the demolished, temporary, existing, or otherwise "less important that the new work information".

93165

[Dimitri Harvalias]

Along the lines of what Corey is saying, you might consider the Phase material the equivalent of a 'by category' material but rather than associating the material to the object category it aligns itself with phase.
As for Poche, it is what Revit will use as the default cut material in 3D views when display is in Coarse level of detail. You can do the same thing with graphic overrides this is just the `sledgehammer`approach that`s built in.
Both are just meant to be universal settings that reduce the amount of fuss needed to make things consistent.

[lbjorn]

Thanks for the replies. I guess I am still a bit confused. It seems that having materials named by phase is only asking for trouble. Could I not assign a "Phase - Existing" material to a wall that is new? This seems to contradict the whole concept of phasing. Maybe I am overthinking this as I don't allow any of our users to use these materials, (making it a non-issue currently).

CADastrophe, it looks like you may have misunderstood my question. Your graphic shows the Phasing dialogue. My question is not related to Revit phasing, phase filters, or graphic overrides. It is related to the OOTB materials in the Materials Browser that are named to indicate which phase they are in..... Which in my opinion contradicts the concept of phasing in Revit. If I do not know, or do not want to represent the actual materials that happen to be created in a particular phase, then I will use a generic material such as "Default Wall".

I guess the motivation for my initial question was to determine if I have somehow missed or misunderstood some functionality associated with these materials.....

[CADastrophe]

My point was: That is intended purpose of those Materials. You don't assign those Materials to model elements - they are supposed to be used in conjuction with Revit Phasing Graphics Overrides. So, you are correct in that your users should not be assigning those Materials to anything.

[lbjorn]

Well, I appreciate the input. I don't know that I feel convinced of the purpose, but perhaps there is no answer that would satisfy me.

[CADastrophe]

I understand that. Attached is a crude image depicting the use of those Materials in conjunction with the Phase Graphics Overrides with the View Filter "Show All". Note the appearance of the existing, demo, and temporary elements. They are being overridden by the Phase Material via Phase Graphic Overrides, but the appearance of the New elements are still being dictated by Object Styles because the "Show All" Filter is set to "By Category" for New Elements.

This image is a little messy, but the primary use of this would be to visually discern new and existing elements with greater ease. If you really don't see any need to show any difference like this, you could always remove the Material from Phase Graphics Overrides, and then simply remove those Materials from the Project.

[DaveP]

I think Corey understood your question perfectly and answered correctly.
bjorn, in your example, how would you use the "Default Wall" material if you DID know the actual material of the Wall, and you wanted to show the Wall with its actual material in an "Existing Building" View, but still show it as generic in the "New Building" View? You can't change it's Material, because it would change both Views. That's why you can set an "Exiting Phase" Material in the Graphic Overrides.
Inartfully named, perhaps, but - as Corey says - that Material should only be use in the Graphics Overrides dialog.

[Steve_Stafford]

As you know Revit provides a feature to change the appearance of elements to distinguish between phases of work. The "Phase-xxx" materials were created by the development team and they exist to support the way that feature is intended to work. The templates are configured (OoTB) to automatically "work" if you use the phase features.

The poche material is also a feature tied to the graphic display of the model when Coarse Detail Level is in effect.

Normally nobody will use the materials, they work as intended and are preset so they do.

The only interaction anyone needs to have with any of those five materials is if something about how they look isn't quite what you want. If you don't think demo elements should be red you can change the material to use something else or increase or decrease the transparency for example.

[lbjorn]

Thanks for sticking with me on this one guys! I think the difficulty we are having in articulating exactly why this makes sense is a testament to its "less than straight forward" functionality/placement.

With that said, I believe I am beginning to understand the intent now! I think what had always thrown me off was that these were listed as materials, with no indication that they were functionally different than any other material. The purist in me struggled with that concept as these are really part of a graphic override system, and not quite materials. Thanks again for the help.

[Steve_Stafford]

Well they are materials. They are used to have "diminishing effect" on elements. Since it is fairly common to want an existing element to look different than new elements (ditto for temporary and demolished) the graphic overrides offer a Material override as well as line weight, pattern and color. If it didn't then an existing wall wouldn't look much different, new and existing brick would look the same. With the stock configuration existing walls look materially muted or less sophisticated ("uglier"), gray and without a pattern. The phase feature just takes advantage of an existing feature/concept to alter the appearance of elements, a feature that also gives us some measure of control over the appearance if we want to use it.