Revit vs. 3ds Max- Rendering

[thomas.denney836893]

I am wondering what others can share in terms of Revit vs. 3ds Max when it comes to utilizing them for design development/progress/alternative ideas vs visualization.

My boss is trying to get a sense of how far we can push revit when it comes to getting visualization out of it. He likes the images that can be produced early in a revit models development, and appreciates the speed at which they can be produced. However, we don’t have the computer processor power (i7 quad core) in any of our computers, allowing revit to utilize more than one of the core, so once the model starts to grow more complex and adding interior lights, etc. the renderings can take over night to finish and on occasion, crash the computer.

A few weeks ago he showed me some renderings done by MIR Visualization in Norway for BIG in Copenhagen. He expressed a fondness for the style, but not necessarily the contents. I immediately got to work in 3dsMax rebuilding the model and started to test materials, etc. He became confused and wanted to understand why I was working in 3dsMax when we already had the model built in Revit and couldn’t we get the rendering from there. I tried to explain the depth of additional tools renderings similar to the MIR ones required and all the additional files mental ray (Please don’t take this as an invitation to start a mr vs. V-Ray debate) outputs that are necessary for compositing in post-production to get that quality. He is now miffed at the thought he is getting taken to the cleaners with Revit “since it is supposed to be able to do both!” His words. Another of his favorite lines: “If I could figure out a way to draft in WORD I would.”

I am now trying to explain the subtle differences (not so subtle in MY opinion) between the two programs, and that we should be using the correct tool for the job. I have tried to push Revit as far as I think I can go with rendering, including cranking up the ‘Customize’ settings. I would like others to share their opinions on this issue.


Cross-posting in the 3ds Max forum too.

[Revitaoist]

You do not need to rebuild the model in Max. In the 2014 building design suite, Max has an option to 'link revit'. All materials can then easily be overridden to Max materials.

[thomas.denney836893]

You do not need to rebuild the model in Max. In the 2014 building design suite, Max has an option to 'link revit'. All materials can then easily be overridden to Max materials.

I see no reason to link Revit into 3ds Max for looking at alternative schemes during the design process. The renderings you get from revit are just fine, to a certain detail level. But, really only for S.D. and D.D., beyond that point the model usually becomes so heavy trying to do anything worth while with it linked into 3ds Max becomes cumbersome beyond sensibility, IMHO.

[Scott D Davis]

I see no reason to link Revit into 3ds Max for looking at alternative schemes during the design process. The renderings you get from revit are just fine, to a certain detail level. But, really only for S.D. and D.D., beyond that point the model usually becomes so heavy trying to do anything worth while with it linked into 3ds Max becomes cumbersome beyond sensibility, IMHO.

2 things come to mind:

Use Cloud Rendering. Wont tie up or use local processors. Great for early design work and "what if" scenarios.
Buy a machine. If you are running Max, you probably have enough horsepower already. but you said "no i7". Go get a good machine with a ton of RAM, and you will be much happier. What are your machine specs now?

[thomas.denney836893]

2 things come to mind:

Use Cloud Rendering. Wont tie up or use local processors. Great for early design work and "what if" scenarios.
Buy a machine. If you are running Max, you probably have enough horsepower already. but you said "no i7". Go get a good machine with a ton of RAM, and you will be much happier. What are your machine specs now?

We tried cloud, but it seems to take just as long to upload files and cloud render as it does to render on computer here. Or, it just time-out's after an hour of uploading. Not all the time, but enough to make it unreliable in my mind.

We are looking into an ideal Machine for running Revit, started with adding RAM upto 32GB in the machine now from 8.

Current set-up:
H-P
Windows 7 Professional, 64-bit
32GB RAM
Intel Xenon, CPU E31270, 3.40 GHz
NVIDIA Quadro 2000
AutoCAD2013
Revit 2013
3ds Max 2013 (render with mental ray)

[rbcameron1]

I would agree, using the cloud is definitely advantageous. I would like to point out that I've noticed the cloud servers are starting to slow up a little bit. Not a big deal, since its off-loaded from my cpu's but they come back with minor material differences and a little bit more..."powdery"?...if that's a word. Keep that in mind when on the cloud. Each new release they get better though. Try it, its worth a shot.

3dsMax is going to get you where you need to be. Not sure what an i7-(3rd gen?) is going to do with such a small cache and only available in single socket motherboards, but its a start. Huge amount of RAM is the way to go as Scott mentioned. This is going to sound weird, but the more lights you add, the longer it takes to render --> So try to do "more" with "less" lights. 10 lights at twice the output in SPECIFIC strategic locations (easier said than done) are better than 20 lights to get that super-accurate look. Also, in 3dsMax, in your scene, hit the number 8 on your keyboard, that'll open up the environment settings. By default it is set to 15. I usually do 14.8 for outdoor scenes and roughly 11-12.5 for interiors. Makes a HUGE difference and you are able to use less lights. My mind was blown when I met a few "pro-3dsMax" users and they only had 10-15 lights in their scenes for 50 square blocks of design/city/models in their file.

A little googling/research and you should be able to deduce what specs you need to handle both Revit and 3dsMax.

My old computer is this:
Dell T5500
2 (two) x Intel Xeon E5520 - 2.26Ghz Quad Core (8 threads each total of 16)
12Gb - 1067Mhz Ram
Nvidia quadro 600 - 1Gb video card
WD Caviar Blue 10K 320Gb Hard-drive

I think I spent about...$900 total..? Bought it used on dellauction site, loaded W7-64bit on trade for the other 10K harddrive that it came with. Its been running great for 1.5 years on a near daily occurrence.
Proof that you don't have to have a huge budget if you are willing to buy pre-owned and take the risk.


I hope this was helpful, let me know if you need anything else.

-rbc

[thomas.denney836893]

To clarify: The i7 processor is for Revit, not for Max. Revit only utilizes 1(one) of the 4(four) cores my computer has. A few months back when I started to investigate this I found out that the only processor set-up to allow all of it's cores to be utilized by Revit was the i7, soooo...I've been drooling for one ever since.

[david_peterson]

2 things come to mind:

Use Cloud Rendering. Wont tie up or use local processors. Great for early design work and "what if" scenarios.
Buy a machine. If you are running Max, you probably have enough horsepower already. but you said "no i7". Go get a good machine with a ton of RAM, and you will be much happier. What are your machine specs now?
A few things comes to mind when you say use the cloud to render.
1 - it's not the same engine, so you'll have to set it up different to render on the cloud than on your local workstation. (unless they Adesk Changed it)
2 - Using the cloud will cost you money in the near future.

[Revitaoist]

I see no reason to link Revit into 3ds Max for looking at alternative schemes during the design process. The renderings you get from revit are just fine, to a certain detail level. But, really only for S.D. and D.D., beyond that point the model usually becomes so heavy trying to do anything worth while with it linked into 3ds Max becomes cumbersome beyond sensibility, IMHO.

I'd say that's true if I was not using GPU rendering with my new expensive video card. I used to render out a high def still overnight with the CPU's, but now I can go to max and do an HD video overnight. You've got to thin out your model before you export and reduce polygons. Make a 3d view with just the skin and simplify as much as you need to get stability.