Paper size vs text height

[BeKirra]

I have been taught to use proper text sizes when I am in school and now I have many years experience in drafting.
In most of cases we now issue electronic drawings to clients/contractors/whoever.
The problem is that some of the people printed the drawings in a small size (e.g. print A0 to A3 even A4)
Then complain by saying "I can't read your notes on your drawings because the text sizes is too small."
When these kind of feedback hits to my office, same of my colleagues replied "OK, we'll make text sizes larger".
The point is why we need a drafting standard? In other words, why we use different drawing paper sizes?

Could anyone please recommend any resources on the net about the drafting standrad especially about proper using paper sheet size?
I'd like to explain to my colleagues that we have to work with drawing standard.
Your helps are much appreciated.

[tedg]

I have been taught to use proper text sizes when I am in school and now I have many years experience in drafting.
In most of cases we now issue electronic drawings to clients/contractors/whoever.
The problem is that some of the people printed the drawings in a small size (e.g. print A0 to A3 even A4)
Then complain by saying "I can't read your notes on your drawings because the text sizes is too small."
When these kind of feedback hits to my office, same of my colleagues replied "OK, we'll make text sizes larger".
The point is why we need a drafting standard? In other words, why we use different drawing paper sizes?

Could anyone please recommend any resources on the net about the drafting standrad especially about proper using paper sheet size?
I'd like to explain to my colleagues that we have to work with drawing standard.
Your helps are much appreciated.

I don't know where I would send you on the interwebz for more information on the topic, but I understand your concern.

It depends on your industry and company standards.
What is the intended output size of your drawings?
Are you expecting them to always be printed at a reduced size?

We've dealt with this lots of times before,
Example: say your company/industry standard sheet size is ANSI D (22"x34") which can be printed half size at 11"x17".
If you have a standard text height of 1/8" (.125"), when it's reduced to half size, it can still be read.

In this example the company expects to have full size drawings at 22"x34" and expects them to be printed half size too, everyone is happy.


However, if your company and/or clients ALWAYS intend on printing a certain size (even if it's small), you should gear your layouts, scales and text heights to that.

Just some stuff to think about.



Fun Fact:
NPS (National Park Service) standards uses a minimum of .15" text height so they can reduce the drawings and still read them.

[cadtag]

And FDOT only uses AnsiB (11"x17") for highway plans, so acceptable text height is 0.08 in.

If there's a national standard for you locale, that would be the place to start looking. If not, look at ISO standards, or ritish Standards. in the US, the National CAD Standards are the best resource.

Most, if not all, of the publicly documented standards (as opposed to company proprietary) will utilize a text size that is still readable at a half-size reproduction. going from A0 to A4 is jumping way beyond that, so is really not consistent with standard processes. If you client needs A4 output, you'll be best served IMO by creating the drawings at that size originally, rather than trying to shrink an A0 to A4..

[jaberwok]

Me too.
If you always print/plot at a reduced size, you should use that size drawing border (or, maybe, one size larger) and size text and everything else to suit that border.

[BeKirra]

Me too.
If you always print/plot at a reduced size, you should use that size drawing border (or, maybe, one size larger) and size text and everything else to suit that border.

Me too too. :?

1st of all, thanks to your comments.
And this is happening in our office.
As the result,
1) the drawing scales is useless on readers' point of view because this kind of changes.
- they don't need to use ruler, scale ruler any more.
2) it will be impossible to fit all details on one single A3 or A4 drawing comparing to using A0 paper.
2) the large sizes (A0, A1 & A2) of paper may not be used in the future.

Am I right? :?:

[jaberwok]

Me too too. :?

1st of all, thanks to your comments.
And this is happening in our office.
As the result,
1) the drawing scales is useless on readers' point of view because this kind of changes.
- they don't need to use ruler, scale ruler any more.
2) it will be impossible to fit all details on one single A3 or A4 drawing comparing to using A0 paper.
2) the large sizes (A0, A1 & A2) of paper may not be used in the future.

Am I right? :?:

Yes!
I've been to many companies that use A1 as a maximum (A1 plotters are cheaper than A0 ones) and quite a few that use A2 max..
Scale rules are useless on reduced size plots unless you have a 0.707:1 scale rule - I've never seen one but I guess they may exist.
Using an A1 border you can usually get away with A3 plots but certainly not A4.

[cadtag]

Me too too. :?

1st of all, thanks to your comments.
And this is happening in our office.
As the result,
1) the drawing scales is useless on readers' point of view because this kind of changes.
- they don't need to use ruler, scale ruler any more.
2) it will be impossible to fit all details on one single A3 or A4 drawing comparing to using A0 paper.
2) the large sizes (A0, A1 & A2) of paper may not be used in the future.

Am I right? :?:

re 1) -- is that a bad thing? my standard disclaimer specified that drawings are not to be scaled. If a distance, direction, or location matters, it needs to be indicated with dimensions, coordinates, station/offset.

re 2) -- while it's possible that large format drawings will disappear, I think it unlikely. Not everything can fit on a smartphone screen, nor can everything be drawn on an A4 (or Ansi A/Letter) format. At least through my grandchildren's lifetime, I expect large format to still be a necessity for many drawings. (Note that's despite my economic preference for Ansi B /Tabloid sheet sizes....)

Like everything in CAD , planning and decision making up front save time and effort at the back end. Work with your team and clients at the start of the job and decide what size is required.

[vtmiii]

our text is based on the scale of the drawing regardless of the sheet size. in other words if the scale of the drawing 1/4" scale and the paper size 22x34 the text height in model space will be 4" high, that way if we have to submit a revise drawing at on 8x11 it will remain the same size text. I have programed a toolbar for my company that sets the text size and text font for the scales that we use

[cadtag]

and when you print that 22x34 to 11x17 because the owner wants a half-size to carry around, that text is half of what it was.

Now if you work at a native Ansi B, and still use your 4" text, the two sheets won't look the same.

[rkmcswain]

We generally set up sheets for 22x34, so they can be printed 1/2 size at 11x17.
Our text sizes generally range from 0.06" to 0.10"
You can read all of that at half size, IF the lineweights are scaled down appropriately (which our reprographics software does)

I know what you're saying, there is no way to read 0.03" text, but you can make it out with a magnifying glass! --- and we only use the half size sets at a visual go-by, they are never issued for construction that size

Anyway, that's not the point..... we do have one client that expects deliverables on 11x17 *and* wants text at 0.12". This just means we put less model on each sheet in order to leave room for this giant text.

Sorry, I don't know of any standards regarding this, other than to say we meet the standards that our client and/or the regulating agencies require - and that varies per project for us.

[vtmiii]

we have a half scale plot config that we switch too if a half scale set is need. basically for example a point 5 line weight becomes a point 35 line weight and so on down the line. now if a PDF is use to make a half scale set, most PDF programs such as Bluebeam will scale the line weights down.

[BeKirra]

Thanks for everyone's comments.
now I think that any national standards would not be helpful for this case.
Basically the drawing scale on a reduced size print is not matched with any standard scales and no one can tell the true drawing scale on the reduced size print.



tedg
Are you expecting them to always be printed at a reduced size?

Not us, but our client(s).



rkmcswain
Anyway, that's not the point..... we do have one client that expects deliverables on 11x17 *and* wants text at 0.12". This just means we put less model on each sheet in order to leave room for this giant text.

This is my concern.
I think this is horrible splitting one drawing to two small sheets when it was possible fitting in a single A0 or A1 sheet.

Again, by using reduced size the CAD drawing scale is meaningless.
We normally set the drawing to a standard scale (ie. 1:50, 1:100, 1:200 ...).
Now everyone can start a drawing with a scale of 1:37.5, 1:85, 1:136, 1:578 or simply whatever they want because of trying to fit models in one small sheet.
The CAD drawing setup then would make no sense at all.
Furthermore, the details drawn would be just wasting the drafters' time because no one can read the details on a reduced size print.
Am I right? :?

[tedg]

Thanks for everyone's comments.
now I think that any national standards would not be helpful for this case.
Basically the drawing scale on a reduced size print is not matched with any standard scales and no one can tell the true drawing scale on the reduced size print.


Not us, but our client(s).


This is my concern.
I think this is horrible splitting one drawing to two small sheets when it was possible fitting in a single A0 or A1 sheet.

Again, by using reduced size the CAD drawing scale is meaningless.
We normally set the drawing to a standard scale (ie. 1:50, 1:100, 1:200 ...).
Now everyone can start a drawing with a scale of 1:37.5, 1:85, 1:136, 1:578 or simply whatever they want because of trying to fit models in one small sheet.
The CAD drawing setup then would make no sense at all.
Furthermore, the details drawn would be just wasting the drafters' time because no one can read the details on a reduced size print.
Am I right? :?

I think it's pretty straight forward,

Most clients/customers are expecting/requiring a certain size "deliverable" sheet size based on a contract, and that is what you set your sheet(s) up for.
If someone else, even a client of your client wants to print on a silly size because it fits on thier desk, that really shouldn't be your problem.

It depends on what your contract says, and what are the design deliverables.

As I mentioned before, we have many projects where the required deliverable sheet size is ANSI D, with a plotted text height of 1/8" (.125") based on thier standards.
And they want full size printed drawings and half-size printed drawings (Tabloid 11"x17"), so it is expected that the text will be smaller and not expected to be scaled off of.

So with that said, if your client/customer requires a small sheet size as thier final deliverable, you simply start with that and set up your scales and text for that.

HTH

[Kevin.Sturmer]

3/32" in layout space is the smallest text size which may clearly be read when plotted to half-size. This is one of the standard layout space text sizes in the US, especially in the world of Arch as well as recommended in the current National CAD Standards. For many clients across the US, 3/32" is the typical full size plot. When plotting 1/2 scale the font ends up as 3/64" and is as small as the average person may clearly read.

Why plot 1/2 size? There are a few clients who request 1/2 size plots for review meetings. The sets in meetings are projects up on the wall for open discussion and some like tha half siez to take notes. 1/2 size plots take up a lot less desk space, show the info clearly, and are much easier to carry from meeting to meeting and office to office. Side note - this practice is being being phased out as they transiton to DWF which are projected, marked up and emailed around.

Unless set annotatively, the size the font is in model space will depend on the prospective viewports scale.

[dgorsman]

... and, most work trailers on site don't have a full-size plotter, only an 11x17.

[cadtag]

... and, most work trailers on site don't have a full-size plotter, only an 11x17.

as well, not many cad people still have room in their cubes to layout a couple of e-size sheets to read.
AnsiB is a nice format to work with in the limited space I've got available to me.

[jaberwok]

as well, not many cad people still have room in their cubes to layout a couple of e-size sheets to read.
AnsiB is a nice format to work with in the limited space I've got available to me.

So use an ANSI-B border!

[cadtag]

So use an ANSI-B border!

I do, whenever possible. text height = 0.08" (or 2.032 mm for those stuck with that system)

[Kevin.Sturmer]

So use an ANSI-B border!

You would need to set up two different sheets if the deliverable size is Arch D (24x36) and your check sets use a ANSI B (11x17). it is not a true 1/2 but you can catch 95% of required corrections during a hard copy review.

If you are traveling to a Client office to for a progress review on a dozen projects and they want hard copies for individual markups, publishing to ANSI B saves paper, makes it easier to carry, and is a lot cheaper! Your final deliverable for each milestone is (per contract) a set of full size sheets. Trying to keep up the two different sizes takes time... may not be much but when you calculate the amount across a tens of thousands of sheets per year... it adds up.

The proportional relationships are different between the sizes so the spacial relationships allow for differing sheet configurations, too.

[jaberwok]

You would need to set up two different sheets if the deliverable size is Arch D (24x36) and your check sets use a ANSI B (11x17). it is not a true 1/2 but you can catch 95% of required corrections during a hard copy review.

If you are traveling to a Client office to for a progress review on a dozen projects and they want hard copies for individual markups, publishing to ANSI B saves paper, makes it easier to carry, and is a lot cheaper! Your final deliverable for each milestone is (per contract) a set of full size sheets. Trying to keep up the two different sizes takes time... may not be much but when you calculate the amount across a tens of thousands of sheets per year... it adds up.

The proportional relationships are different between the sizes so the spacial relationships allow for differing sheet configurations, too.

No!
The only thing that matters is your contracted deliverables - the formal, legal (if relevant) drawing.
The rest is just a matter of convenience and if the text isn't legible then it isn't very convenient.
.

[PRSS]

IMHO, why not simply write just outside the border of the drawing as to what size it has to be printed to? Why adopt unnatural text heights just because somebody else is going to print to sizes which is not intended to? IMHO, once you make it clear on the drawing itself as to the size of the sheet (we do so in our office) then it is upto the person at the receiving end either to print to the correct paper size or tolerate small text if printed to smaller size.

With best regards
PRSS

[jaberwok]

IMHO, why not simply write just outside the border of the drawing as to what size it has to be printed to? Why adopt unnatural text heights just because somebody else is going to print to sizes which is not intended to? IMHO, once you make it clear on the drawing itself as to the size of the sheet (we do so in our office) then it is upto the person at the receiving end either to print to the correct paper size or tolerate small text if printed to smaller size.

With best regards
PRSS

^5. Even better, include the design sheet size in the border frame.

[neil.mount342992]

Your text heights regardless of paper size should never alter and should be constant. If you are printing to a different paper size to which you have drawn then you have chosen the wrong paper size to start with. Similarly with dimensions.

[cadtag]

ah, no.

If I'm creating an ANSI A figure, almost the the least useful thing I can put on that wold be text at 1/8", or a 2-1.2" wide scale bar or 2" high North arrow. That text size is almost twice the size needed for legibility, and dramatically reduces the amount of information that can go on the sheet. Similarly, if creating a drawing for Arch D, having 8 pt text is next to useless. I can fit a lot on, but it's not going to be at all easy for the recipient/builder to work with, or even read.

Bottom line -- aim at your target, but be prepared for unintended consequences. As the drafter, your job is to communicate! Make sure what you produce does that.

[tedg]

Your text heights regardless of paper size should never alter and should be constant. If you are printing to a different paper size to which you have drawn then you have chosen the wrong paper size to start with. Similarly with dimensions.
You are mistaken, have you even read this thread?

In most cases, there is an intended sheet size, and such, your inteded text height should be set for that sheet size.
But as it has been mentioned many times in this thread; some clients want ones size, but be able to print it another size and still read it (like half size etc).
Or some clients' clients want to print some other odd/smaller size, which wouldn't be the original designers' concern.

So to say (paraphrasing) "the text size should never alter or you've chosen the wrong size paper" would be an inaccurate, short sighted statement.

[filkins1]

As a contract drafter moving from work place to work place I see the same problem at each. This is that all drawings are now getting printed at A3 size no matter what the original drawing format drawing sheet size. These A3 prints are use for fabrication, manufacture and sit installation. There is always misunderstanding, misreadings and therefore mistakes.

And while we are here, when creating pdf or tiff prints always create them at the sheet size the drawing was create at - A0 to A0, A1 to A1, etc, etc,. this allows the screen reader to see the appropriate line type style and readable text.

The answer as I see it is to create a drawing format of A3 with the minimum text height 2.0mm. I know this would mean more sheets to tell the story/storey - so what? I have tried a modified A2 title block in an A3 sheet and this seems to look ok for an A3 print (there are very little plots now).

Good luck trying to convince and office manager to change if your only a "scumbag contractor". They only listen with a blank look.

[Chuckyd67]

The greatest reduction of a drawing size should be no more than 50%. If the text is getting too small to read, then linework, joins, and other graphic features are too small, also. Further, when the text size gets to be large relative to the drawing scale, too much graphic information is lost.

The important thing to remember is that the purpose of drawings is to convey critical information to the user. The scale of the drawing reaches a point where such information is lost. If the user wants such small drawings, tell him to get a magnifying glass.

[Chief Draftsman]

A good general rule for plans scaled to even ratios, such as engineering or survey plans (e.g., 1:20, 1:50, 1:100, etc.), is to simply multiply the scale times a factor of .07 or .08. For example, small text and dimensions can be drawn at 7' or 8' for a 1"=100' scaled planset, regardless of paper size. For FDOT plans, we generally use .07 times scale for most text, .10 times scale for large text, and .15 times scale for titles. Text smaller than .06 times scale is just too small to read, so limit your smallest text to that. It's always best to use annotation scale for both Microstation and Civil 3D, just in case you do need to rescale a sheet. Then, you only need to adjust your text and notes that have leaders as they will shift slightly when resizing. Of course, each client may have their own preference, and that will be the deciding factor. Often, I will plot out a sheet early in the design process and check it for legibility. That way, you won't have a 500 sheet planset that needs to be fixed in a hurry.

[Chief Draftsman]

Do you mean .08 times the scale of the drawing, or annotation scale set at .08? .08" would be tiny.

[niravvyas23291801]

Drawing standards were set to ensure our drawings could be read internationally. Therefore one have to consult with the client at the beginning of a project in which format and sizes the drawings should be for there use in the office as well as on site. All companies I have worked for thus have in there standards directory from A4 to A0 standard title blocks available. In general we do provide the client with the correct size pdf files for them to print their preferred size and if they can't read, they just print a portion of the drawing. Note that drawings for construction are printed full size and signed by the professional engineer before issue, but these will in many cases not reach site in time.
In closure: Presentation of any construction drawing is of utmost importance, as approval by any council or mining body is done with specific standards set as default. If the draughtsman or cad operator fail on standards, the company represented will fail as a result.

[jaberwok]

Your text heights regardless of paper size should never alter and should be constant. If you are printing to a different paper size to which you have drawn then you have chosen the wrong paper size to start with. Similarly with dimensions.


You are mistaken, have you even read this thread?

In most cases, there is an intended sheet size, and such, your inteded text height should be set for that sheet size.
But as it has been mentioned many times in this thread; some clients want ones size, but be able to print it another size and still read it (like half size etc).
Or some clients' clients want to print some other odd/smaller size, which wouldn't be the original designers' concern.

So to say (paraphrasing) "the text size should never alter or you've chosen the wrong size paper" would be an inaccurate, short sighted statement.

Ted, the first sentence in Neil's post is ambiguous but the second sentence clarifies his meaning. I think you have misinterpreted the first sentence.
If you take it as "Your text heights, regardless of intended paper size, should never alter ...", I think you agree and so do I.
3.5mm text should be 3.5mm text whether on an A4 or an A0 border; plotting to a different size destroys any design logic.

[tedg]

Ted, the first sentence in Neil's post is ambiguous but the second sentence clarifies his meaning. I think you have misinterpreted the first sentence.
If you take it as "Your text heights, regardless of intended paper size, should never alter ...", I think you agree and so do I.
3.5mm text should be 3.5mm text whether on an A4 or an A0 border; plotting to a different size destroys any design logic.

Fair enough, apologies to Neal.
You're right, I was taking that first sentence as being non-flexable with plotting drawings. Meaning if you ever intend on printing a different size, you should set up a new sheet and text height for that size (which would mean making the text bigger if you intend to plot smaller size etc). The "you've chosen the wrong size paper" statement got me.

[daxjd]

I guess you are doing everything right, some food for taught!

The customer is the boss, and their request can be met in many ways.

[1] Save drawing in customer/client name.

[2] Save test on a special layer.

[3] Go to property and change test to a different size e.g. paper size 24" x 36" scale 1/8" = 1' :Text size of 120" on drawing will yield 5/8" when printed.

[4] In an office environment, we view our drawings in most cases on the computer so we have a way to zoom in or out, the customer do not have this option.

[5] Here are some other sizes [6" = 1/16"] [9"= 3/32"] [12" = 1/8" [18" = 3/16"] [24"=1/4"] 30"= 5/16"[36"=3/8" [48"=1/2" [120"=5/8".

Hope it helps.

jim.

[Wanderer]

[4] In an office environment, we view our drawings in most cases on the computer so we have a way to zoom in or out, the customer do not have this option.


That consideration is precisely why I, as a client, never dictate text height in my cad/bim standards in our contracts... because we do 99% of our drawing referencing electronically. If we have to print it out, it's always 1-off prints, very catered to a specific user.
One of our plumbers hated big drawings, so, I'd turn off most of the text and print it out letter-sized. An HVAC guy was super blind, so he'd have one of his guys print out a drawing as big as he could get it.
We don't always print out with the titleblocks visible, instead, turning on a plot stamp to show the drawing path for the project details
(eg Server://facilities/NorthSide/Building/1990_DrJones/Mechanical/M102.dwg).

[edtrimmer1982]

Plotters are cheap now, there shouldn't be any reason why a construction trailer wouldn't have a plotter.

The text height should be consistent across all sheet sizes when plotted from paperspace at 1:1. If the end user wants to print it at a scale other than 1:1, then the end user would have to accept the consequences of doing so.

[Quadratec]

This is an interesting topic and one that I've had many discussions about in the past few years. Firstly I should say that I work in Australia so my experience may not be the same in other parts of the world. Anyway I work as a freelance consultant so I have been fortunate to see many different approaches to this problem since CAD was introduced, and then subsequently the internet. Anyway normally when I am involved in this debate I ask the question "when was the last time you held a drawing that was bigger than A3"? To which the response is either never because the person answering the question has been in the industry less than 5-10 years or it was such a long time ago they can't remember. For this very reason I changed all of my CAD/drafting standards many years ago to suit only A3 sheet sizes and my title blocks identify that they are A3 sheet size. I never have a client ask for bigger sheet sizes because they all use A3 photo copiers to print out their drawings, in fact I can't remember the last time I witnessed a plotter/printer in an office that was bigger than A3 other than the local plan print shops. Moreover most construction sites and workshops do not like handling drawings that are bigger than A3, well in my neck of the world anyway.

[cadtag]

Plotters are cheap now, there shouldn't be any reason why a construction trailer wouldn't have a plotter.

The text height should be consistent across all sheet sizes when plotted from paperspace at 1:1. If the end user wants to print it at a scale other than 1:1, then the end user would have to accept the consequences of doing so.

huhm... $8K USD is not cheap, then factor in the space for the plotter, supplies, service, power, etc and it makes little sense for a rarely used device to be sitting in a trailer on a random jobsite. If the job is big enough, it might make sense, but generally speaking, not IMO.

>>The text height should be consistent across all sheet sizes when plotted from paperspace at 1:1

Well, if one qualifies that with the addition of the phrase "In a single job, that only utilizes a single paper size" then it's generally something I'll go along with. However, There's zero reason that a drawing intended for Ansi B layouts should use the same text heights as one intended for ArchD page sizes. A text size that is appropriate at ArchD is nonsensical at Ansi A or Ansi B pages. And really, in today's environment, using the AnsiB as the default size makes more financial sense than the large formats.

[neil.mount342992]

I do think this thread has become far too complicated. I have had one text and one dimension style for the last 10 years at least. I use this style regardless of what paper size i am using. From being a draughtsman originally on the drawing board we were instructed from the outset to print around 2.5 to 3mm high. This has been an adopted principle into CAD in which i have never ever given it a second thought. I always always print to the designated printer and at full scale. If its an A3 sheet then the text is 2.5mm high. If its an A1 sheet then the text is also 2.5mm high. I would hardly ever print an A1 drg onto A3 sheet size, as there would not really be any point. The reason why you would choose an A1 drawing sheet is because an A3 sheet would be too small to show the appropriate detail you are drawing. The principle one should adopt is to choose an appropriate drawing sheet for the detail you are drawing. The text size will never change. If you draw on an A1 sheet knowing you only have an A3 printer available then you are doing it wrong with regards to drawing detail............

[MFate]

If you are looking for a resource to reinforce your position on text heights, then check out the NCS (National CAD Standards) http://www.nationalcadstandard.org/ncs5/. I use this all the time when I get different opinions on what should or should not be used. The NCS is my single "go-to" source for CAD/drafting standards. And if you don't like what's in the NCS, then get involved to help improve them.

[dgorsman]

I guess you've never done work for different clients then. Some just hand wave away any variations, others will take their work elsewhere on *any* talkback. Client says 3mm high text using style STANDARD well that's what they get.

Why print A1 on an A3? Much easier to check, faster and to print, easier to tote around a site while wearing chemical-resistant gear at -20C. Why not just do it on an A3 at full size then? Again, we're into client requirements - their title block is for an A1 (or larger) sheet. Plus printing "down" is easier than printing "up" - printing an A3 drawing at A1 size doesn't always look so pretty.

[Mantisguy]

One needs to go back to the day of hand draughting to truly understand the issue of text height and plan section and detail size. Drawings were often reduced using microfiche as a method of archiving drawings. Other methods were used too, but with hand drawn lettering the tect height had to be a min of a 1/4" or approximately 3mm to be able to reduce a 24"x36" drawing to approximately a 1" square. and then be able to bring it back to its original size without loosing to much readability. In todays world with various digital methods providing anything you want the question is a little more difficult to handle. Add to it that certain aging members like me can no longer read some of the miniscule text that some draftspeople still can read. In my 35 years of experience I would say that the min size of text for a 22"x 34" sheet being reduced by 50% to fit on a 11x17" printer should not be less than .09" better is .10" as this becomes .045 or .05 respectively. Also gone from most drafting knowledge is that it is smart to leave a min of 2" clear space between objects, plans, sections etc for notes and dimensions. That is to mean you have to leave 2" x your scale of your drawing if anotating in model space. When I have some more time I may write a book on how to set standards for different type of drawings.....hmmm. Oh yes if you plan to print half scale or approximately half scale you need to put a scale bar on your drawing which indicates that tif plotted as full scale the scale bar represents 4" in length. ie "This bar scales 4" on original size".....Of course if metric place 100mm bar, and so on. Thats cuz some folk in civil do drawings in meters and feet, not in inches and millimetres.

[tedg]

One needs to go back to the day of hand draughting to truly understand the issue of text height and plan section and detail size. Drawings were often reduced using microfiche as a method of archiving drawings. Other methods were used too, but with hand drawn lettering the tect height had to be a min of a 1/4" or approximately 3mm to be able to reduce a 24"x36" drawing to approximately a 1" square. and then be able to bring it back to its original size without loosing to much readability. In todays world with various digital methods providing anything you want the question is a little more difficult to handle. Add to it that certain aging members like me can no longer read some of the miniscule text that some draftspeople still can read. In my 35 years of experience I would say that the min size of text for a 22"x 34" sheet being reduced by 50% to fit on a 11x17" printer should not be less than .09" better is .10" as this becomes .045 or .05 respectively. Also gone from most drafting knowledge is that it is smart to leave a min of 2" clear space between objects, plans, sections etc for notes and dimensions. That is to mean you have to leave 2" x your scale of your drawing if anotating in model space. When I have some more time I may write a book on how to set standards for different type of drawings.....hmmm. Oh yes if you plan to print half scale or approximately half scale you need to put a scale bar on your drawing which indicates that tif plotted as full scale the scale bar represents 4" in length. ie "This bar scales 4" on original size".....Of course if metric place 100mm bar, and so on. Thats cuz some folk in civil do drawings in meters and feet, not in inches and millimetres.

Nicely put, and I think you will find that most of us (who've posted in this thread) are on board with this line of thinking.

Drawings need to be set up to an expected sheet size, per a required standard, and that some clients/end-users will occasionally print them at a smaller size for convenience.
And so, in this case, the standards/text heights would be set up accommodate a smaller printed size and still be readable.

Standard text sizes that I've used in the past (and per NCS) which accommadate half size prints are .1" and .125" (3/32" and 1/8").

Now can we stop beating this dead horse?

[colinawright]

I am very pleased to note that no-one so far has suggested annotating or dimensioning in Paperspace but a little disappointed that no-one has suggested copying the text to a different scale and changing its layer so that the required layer can be activated according to the intended plot scale. I've personally never done this but it could be a solution for difficult clients.

[jaberwok]

... no-one has suggested copying the text to a different scale and changing its layer so that the required layer can be activated according to the intended plot scale. I've personally never done this but it could be a solution for difficult clients.

as was once common practice, freezing and thawing viewport layers.

[Opie]

I am very pleased to note that no-one so far has suggested annotating or dimensioning in Paperspace but a little disappointed that no-one has suggested copying the text to a different scale and changing its layer so that the required layer can be activated according to the intended plot scale. I've personally never done this but it could be a solution for difficult clients.

That's because I didn't chime in. I know that discussion and do not wish to partake in it again.