sheet management

[jagostinho]

Hi,

Anyone using a different RVT for Sheet Management alone where you would link the RVT with the actual model?
Care to share some experiences?

is it worth it?
Is it too much of a pain to become useful?

Thanks in advance for the feedback.
J

[Devin_82]

Usually not worth it, though I guess it depends on the complexity of the project. Primarily I think it is a workflow thing for our company. If in the process of annotation you find something that needs to be modified in some way, you then need to open the main model and make the changes and deal with all the stuff that goes with a process like that like Revit telling you it won't allow you to open a linked file without unloading it from the host file. I guess it could work if you have prototype buildings that are just populated on different sites, then you could probably realize some savings. But if you are dealing with unique buildings on a unique site, probably going to be more of a headache than anything else.

My two cents...

[jagostinho]

Many thanks, Devin.

You have good points addressed. Most strikingly the hindrance of one being unable to open a linked file. An ordeal.
We are working on a single building so I guess there is no point of having a separate RVT, like I asked. the issue is raised when we wanted to make sure that no company titleblocks would get issued, i.e., uploaded, with the central model. by having a separate rvt for sheet management alone one could guarantee that only the model was shared with the external teams.

[MikeJarosz]

the hindrance of one being unable to open a linked file.

You can open a linked file if you do it from a second session of Revit. Session A has the architectural with structural linked in, and session B has the structural file opened directly and editable.....perfectly possible.

[jagostinho]

I stand corrected.
But a second session takes a bit of more resources than a single one with two files opened, doesn't it?

[dhurtubise]

We annotate where the geometry is. The Sheets are also based on where the geometry is. Using a single model for sheets creates one more file to manage, will have several people in it, and a ton of links... way too slow for us

[jsteinhauer]

J,

The workflow is more complicated when you're trying to have a separate model for just the sheets. You will need to work on project coordination much more than you would if the sheets are within the same model as the geometry (this is the typical way I've seen it). But there is nothing stating that you can't do this. When it comes to general details for multiple buildings, you could go through the work of creating the detail and then inserting that view into multiple projects. Or you could create it in one model and print the associated sheets from there. Again, you're really going to have to work on the process to get it where you need it, so that this will work.

On my current project that is winding down, we had our sheets in the same model as the geometry, but the cover sheets came from the arch model. They used a Revit Sheet Schedule that included elements from other models to create the full sheet list. This works, as long as everyone on the project follows the instructions from the lead. If they don't, then sheets will be missing or show up in the wrong order within the list.

I hope I didn't muddy the waters to much.
Jeff S.

[cdatechguy]

Hi,

Anyone using a different RVT for Sheet Management alone where you would link the RVT with the actual model?
Care to share some experiences?

is it worth it?
Is it too much of a pain to become useful?

Thanks in advance for the feedback.
J
It's very useful when you have multiple disciplines, buildings and volumes and trying to keep track of it all in one place. I created all my sheet indexes with this method. And I turn off all the worksets so all I get is sheet info and no models. Works great when you have 14+ models in one.

[MikeJarosz]

I stand corrected.
But a second session takes a bit of more resources than a single one with two files opened, doesn't it?

I don't do it often, because most of my links are from consultants. If their file requires changes, they do the changes and reissue the file. Once in a while, the fastest way is to fix the link myself for an issue, then notify the consultant and the correction arrives later that week.

I have a 64 bit multi core Dell with 16m memory. Two Revit sessions don't stress things too much.

[david_peterson]

I currently have a separate model for my sheet lists. But that's mainly due to file size and the size of the project. 1.4mil sqft split into 16 different areas. So i have 4 separate structural models, all linked into one file for my sheet lists. I also have this set up so none of the worksets load. So it take all of about 5 min to open. Works great. If I could have done this project in one model I would have, but I don't think my old workstation would have been happy about that. Heck I'm not sure my current workstation would be happy about that. Our Archies are doing the same type of thing. But they have a lot more models to deal with and a lot more sheets.

[samcooke327753]

Do you create views in the sheet model and use "by linked view" settings? ie. are all views from IN the split working models, and duplicated in the sheet model? Can you explain your workflow for this method...

[matthijs_frederiks]

I currently have a separate model for my sheet lists. But that's mainly due to file size and the size of the project. 1.4mil sqft split into 16 different areas. So i have 4 separate structural models, all linked into one file for my sheet lists. I also have this set up so none of the worksets load. So it take all of about 5 min to open. Works great. If I could have done this project in one model I would have, but I don't think my old workstation would have been happy about that. Heck I'm not sure my current workstation would be happy about that. Our Archies are doing the same type of thing. But they have a lot more models to deal with and a lot more sheets.

That's exactly when I would use it. Generally our hospital models are about 100-200 Mb when we finish the schematic design phase and 300-500 Mb after detailing.... those sizes are still manageable but do get a bit laggy. But when your SD is already over 350 Mb I would suggest you do the detailing in a separate (linked) model just to keep both models a bit speedy in the end.
Keep in mind though that you don't get the warnings in the design model that annotation elements get deleted when you change something in a way the reference is lost (dimensions mostly)... that happens when you reload the design model in your detailing model. Just edit the design model smartly ;)
For the sake of uniform detailing I feel you better use detail components... we are really putting as many things in 3D and 2D families, even seemingly loose text notes (when tagging just doesn't work) go into a family just for the sake of being able to change all references quickly and with certainty. Everything you draw by hand is something to review when there's a change and also something that can't be used by your colleagues

[dtartaglia]

We have found an issue with tagging objects from a sheet model. This link explains the issue and work-around. Autodesk replied that this issue will be resolved in Revit 2015: http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?151094-Revit-STC-issue-Tags-of-linked-elements-losing-host

[smurch79558031]

We are currently using a separate ‘Documentation’ model with ‘working’ models referenced into it. Initially we were working in a single file, but due to the large size of the project, and sudden ramping up of resources, there was a definate need to separate the model for ease of use. Now we have 2 ‘working’ models in addition to consultant models. All views are documented fully in the ‘working’ models and then the view is linked ‘by link view’ to a duplicate view in the sheet model. Not an ideal workflow but it works.

[jagostinho]

We are currently using a separate ‘Documentation’ model with ‘working’ models referenced into it. Initially we were working in a single file, but due to the large size of the project, and sudden ramping up of resources, there was a definate need to separate the model for ease of use. Now we have 2 ‘working’ models in addition to consultant models. All views are documented fully in the ‘working’ models and then the view is linked ‘by link view’ to a duplicate view in the sheet model. Not an ideal workflow but it works.

Smurch, a couple of questions.

Do you notice better modelling performance by moving the sheets into another file?

Do you link DWGs with standard details into drafting views on the model or on the Sheet RVT?

Main challenges on using the 2 models option? Which cons do you feel more difficult to control?

[cberteaux371801]

We have one client who requires full Revit models from 13+ consultants and subs. when combined these models easily push 250 - 450MGB. So we will utilize a different model for all the Documentation as well. Its very easy since you can now Tag things and schedule things from linked models.