Wall Joins

[Allen Lacy]

Arrrrgggggg! This wall join condition is driving me nuts (actually there are two of them). Walls are exactly the same, but will not miter!

[beegee]

Al,

Check that the structure and finish layers in each wall to be joined, are set to the same. ie finish 1 to finish 1 etc.

Check that they are in the same phase also.

[Allen Lacy]

Yeah, I've thought of that too. But they're the same phase, and the same wall type. I'm baffled. They are in the existing phase, but I've added doors in the new construction phase. Could that have anything to do with it? Could wall sweeps have anything to do with it(they were added in the existing phase)?

[JamesVan]

Have you tried playing around with the end grips of each wall segment? I've found that 'magical' things happen merely by dragging the end grips of walls to resolve joining issues.

[gregcashen]

Is your wall mitred or butted? Mitred walls usually don't have this problem...butted ones do. You will probably have to change it in both phases for it to work...if at all.

[funkman]

3 things -
1. check your edit profile elvation if you altered it there
2. try detach all, then re-attach to only the elements you need to
3. try unjoin, then join again to only the elements you need to

hope this helps

[Scott D Davis]

Try using the Align tool, I have luck with that to get walls to clean up. Align the face of the outside wall with the endcap of the other wall.

It looks like you have two wall types drawn parallel to each other, and not one wall as a compound wall?

[rgecy]

I have no clue whats going on with that! I have noticed that Revit seems to be boggled when it gets more than 3 walls coming together. I typically have a problem at corners where exterior walls come together at a corner with interior walls. Sounds like a bug that just needs to be fixed.

Just my point of view!
Robert

[Allen Lacy]

I took away the addition(back to just the existing building), purged and saved as a new file. Guess what? The wall joins are perfect! Now to figure out what in demo or new building is causing the problem.

[Steve_Stafford]

Are you using worksets on this project Allen?

[Allen Lacy]

No, but I'm considering it. Also considering linking the exising building model to the addition model, since I have that as a separate model now.

[Steve_Stafford]

Okay...if you were and using them for options, different workset walls in the same space can produce interesting cleanup results.

Have you unlocked the wall layers to extend the sheathing and finish below the bottom of the wall? I had cleanup issues with that when the wall join isn't a miter.

[jbalding48677]

I have seen this happen when there is a wall above that is demo'd. Could that be the case?

[mtogni]

Where's the problem? A lot of times (as today) I have to fight with Revit trying to fix problems like that...
No news for me.
Regards.

[narlee]

Do you guys find it odd that the wall join default is for butt rather than miter or am I missing a setting I couldn't find?

[aaronrumple]

Actually butting handles more joint conditions than miter and is more true to construction. Think about it. When was the last time you saw a contractor mitering drywall?

[adegnan]

Actually butting handles more joint conditions than miter and is more true to construction. Think about it. When was the last time you saw a contractor mitering drywall?

True, true. But then we need the butt joins to clean up better. I find myself typically changing all my wall joins to miter to make sure they clean up right, especially if I'm doing a sweep along that wall.

Also, I find that if I'm joining two walls of one type (exterior, typically) to one wall of a different type (interior, typically) that I need to miter the two walls to get the third to join nicely.

I've requested a few times to allow mitered joints by default.

Otherwise, give us smarter butt joins! But really, this is SO much better than version 1!! (anyone else remember??)

[beegee]

I'm with you on this one Abe.

Primarily I'm concerned that wall junctions are often traditionally drawn as mitred even though they are not constructed that way in practice. ( Brick to brick or stud to stud )

So I would like to see the mitre option as the default

[gregcashen]

How about just better recognition of when a sweep should turn the corner, so we don't have to force the turn by mitering? Just improve the hosted sweeps functionality.

[aaronrumple]

...cheer up. Just getting some laughs in the ADT newsgroup. We could have to deal with ADT priorities and display reps.

What a sad group of lost souls....

[tamas]

How about just better recognition of when a sweep should turn the corner, so we don't have to force the turn by mitering? Just improve the hosted sweeps functionality.

What is the problem with wall sweeps turning the corners? I think they manage butt joins just as well as mitered ones. Could you send me some examples with incorrect behavior?

[gregcashen]

Alright, I have to admit I was a bit wrong here. My first project I started with Revit a year ago in 5.0. At the time, I had a vert. compound wall that had a sweep (belly band) around the bottom and a bottom extension of the external layer. With the walls set to butt, the sweep and the extension did not wrap one corner. I got around it by making the corners mitered.

I just tried to duplicate in 6.0, and the same thing happened with the extension, but not the sweep. however, setting the wall join to miter fixed the problem...incidentally, setting back to butt kept the proper wrap. Don't know if this just works better in 6.0, or if my arsenal of workarounds has simply grown.

[tamas]

Don't know if this just works better in 6.0, or if my arsenal of workarounds has simply grown.

I am glad to hear it looks better. I did some enhancement to the way wall extensions join in 6.0. Wall sweeps may still have some trouble finding their correct length when placed on the extension of joined walls, but you can always pull the ends of the two neighboring sweeps together and they will miter.

The key to wall sweep mitering is to make sure the two sweeps end at the same spot. (The blue dots coincide when selecting the sweeps). And of course they need to have same profile and material.

[gregcashen]

The wall extensions had no problem at all. I like that, because I almost always have wall extensions in my projects and this is the first time I have tried it in 6.0, so I am glad I don't have to go changing the wall joins to miter for every corner!

[narlee]

"Actually butting handles more joint conditions than miter and is more true to construction. Think about it. When was the last time you saw a contractor mitering drywall?"

Dear Aaron,

I'm sorry you have no craftsmen in Missouri.

[gregcashen]

Nor in California. What, exactly, is the benefit of mitered drywall? And do the benefits outweigh the substantial cost increases associated with the additional time required? I guess outside corners make a little sense, but inside corners...it just seems silly. Do they also miter the studs?

[Wes Macaulay]

Things that screw up wall joins...

- walls close by either above or below
- as above but in another phase
- floors above or below

For the wall join in question I suggest "pulling apart" the building in that area... other walls, other phases, floors, roofs, etc. until it works. Then rebuild the model until you find the offending objects.

And Aaron... ADT just takes the joy out of living, doesn't it? ;-)

[narlee]

"Nor in California. What, exactly, is the benefit of mitered drywall? And do the benefits outweigh the substantial cost increases associated with the additional time required? I guess outside corners make a little sense, but inside corners...it just seems silly. Do they also miter the studs?"

Absolutely, for that inner sense of symmetry. You know, I often go on spiritual retreats with the tradesmen around here, don't you? And there I thought California led the way in self-actualization.

[gregcashen]

So your "absolutely" was in response to the mitering of studs or the cost effectiveness of doing so? Mitering drywall to achieve an inner sense of symmetry sounds like a load of [something] to me, unless we're talking about post and beam, where this kind of craftsmanship makes a difference to the final product. I honestly can say I've never heard of anyone mitering studs/plates/...insulation(?). Any reason you chose not to answer the main question re: the benefits v. cost increase? Seems to me that miters would create a weaker joint than with a butt condition.

BTW, you sound more defensive than self-actualized. Perhaps it's time for another retreat? :wink:

[Steve_Stafford]

Okay...to your corners gentlemen, I want a fair fight...no eye gouging, no groin punches... :D

[gregcashen]

Thanks, Steve. I'm actually trying to sound inquisitive and curious (I am!), but was, perhaps, a bit irritated by the ad hominem attack on Californians rather than an answer to my question.

[adegnan]

Nor in California. What, exactly, is the benefit of mitered drywall? And do the benefits outweigh the substantial cost increases associated with the additional time required? I guess outside corners make a little sense, but inside corners...it just seems silly. Do they also miter the studs?

G,

In all seriousness (I think narlee was joking) no no one miters drywall or studs. Unless, with studs, we are making something other than a 90* corner, then we typically do end up making so mitered joins. But no, i've never seen my drywall installer miter his corners, that is what mud and corner beads are for!

I hope everyone gets over it.

[gregcashen]

I am probably just being overly sensitive here and not picking up on the humor. Sorry all! :oops:

If this is the case, I feel like a dunce. I thought he was seriously suggesting that it is better craft to miter the joins, and if this is the case, I would be interested in knowing why. If it's a joke, take it easy on me on April 1, cause I'm obviously "that guy"!

[rhys]

Reminds me of the apprentice scaffolder who was sent to get some "sky hooks" from the stores :lol: Seriously :| thats what emoticons are for on BB's the written word doesn't work too well sometimes without the facial expressions :wink:

[bclarch]

... or the apprentice aircraft mechanics that are sent to fetch some propwash.

[PeterJ]

...........any junior in any organisation sent to the stores for a long weight....

[Dimitri Harvalias]

You can probably work that loose if you put a little elbow grease on it...

[narlee]

My apologies to Aaron and Greg. Please never take me too seriously. I'm sure I don't! Good point by someone about the emoticons; I'll remember that. :D

[narlee]

I just read the two about the "propwash" and "long weight" and I'm keelin' over.