Three words: EASE OF USE!

[Wes Macaulay]

One of the things that continues to annoy me (I just wrote an exam to get certified to support the 2004 lineup of AutoCAD products for AEC) is that software writers don't seem to get one thing:

It's hard for people to learn software. Some people have told me that they have had a hard time with Revit (which makes me feel bad, since I taught them), but it's nothing like having to learn something else, like Triforma on Microstation, or Architecture for Triforma on Microstation. Check this out:

http://www.bentleyuser.org/LarsWord/larsMar2002.htm

As great as Triforma ever was, or is, it takes a lot to train it; NBBJ spent MILLIONS getting their people up on Triforma. For most architects, it's not an option. It's hard enough just running the business. No wonder most people have just stuck to 2D CAD - that's enough complexity for most people.

It's time all the CAD people did usability studies. Ease-of-use is the biggest issue of them all.

[JamesVan]

Can somebody do a study of how many times Autodesk or Revit is mentioned in marketing or white papers issued by Bentley or Bentley users and vice versa for Autodesk marketing. I think we'd find some interesting statistics.

Frankly, I grow increasingly frustrated with the BIM-bashing technique. Is this a Democratic Presidential campaign? :wink:

[Scott Hopkins]

Wes,

I totally agree with you. Ease of use was a huge selling point in my decision to purchase Revit. I had just spent 6 months using ADT 3.3 and was really fed up with how complicated and convoluted things were. Switching to Revit seemed like a breath of fresh air. That said I must confess that, although the basics of Revit are easy to learn, the advanced features (families, worksets, phasing, etc.) can get very complicated. Because Revit is a BIM system I think it is always going to be more complicated than basic vanilla CAD. If AutoDesk is going to get users to switch over from AutoCAD to Revit then simplifying Revit should be a top priority. The simpler and easier Revit is to use, the larger the user-base will become and then (theoretically) more money can be spent on program development.

[Wes Macaulay]

The problem is, it doesn't just affect ADT - it's a problem with ATF on Microstation, it's a problem with AllPlan, Arris... etc, etc.

Software developers need to let USERS design the software! Even Photoshop can be an obtuse piece of software. It would be great if many developers sat down and cleared the slate - "maybe the code doesn't need help - maybe it's the interface - let's redo that". It will hurt at first, but new users could benefit immensely.

Our usability analysis expert here at Pacific Alliance is completing a usability analysis of a very popular GIS program - it would be interesting if he could be let loose on ADT or even Revit.

One of the interesting points in that article by Lars Hesselgren is his observation about the notional differences between roofs, walls and floors. In practice and construction there is a difference, but for CAD, these are all just objects; a sloping slab object may be a roof or part of a floor in a parking garage, or maybe it's a wall. Lars and others are working on developing this concept further at http://www.smartgeometry.org - some of the geometry there is quite fantastic. The idea is to focus more on how to create the geometry (make the creation process better) rather than on what the geometry represents.

Triforma had and may still have much potential, but in our area it is completely DEAD. Triforma has a lame terrain modeller, a lame door and window maker etc... Lars still thinks Revit is going nowhere, but he ain't been to Canada! Bentley is in reverse in this country, which is too bad, but if you're not training the new users in an industry, you better have software that people can learn REALLY easily.

[cliff collins]

Amen, brothers. I've been using ADT from R1---Display Manager-Display Configs-Display Reps,sets--what???? Revit is great for quickly building a simple model and then extracting plans, elevations, sections, etc.
Setting up sheets is a snap--all references update,etc. My only criticism at my "newbie" level is that more complex 3D modelling is difficult, because of the lack of a concise set of modelling tools and interface. It may grow on me, but at first this is where it's not "easy to use". The documentation (or lack of) in this area leaves a lot to be desired. The rudimentary things like sweeps, profiles, extrude, revolve, blend, etc. are fairly straightforward--but more complex, real-world modelling is more difficult, at least for me. Otherwise--I agree K.I.S.S.

Cliff Collins

[J-G]

It must have been 2 years ago when I looked at different packages for replacing ADT. I was frusterated by waht ADT couldn't do, and was looking for a way out. I looked at them all ArchiCAD, Allplan, Revit, etc, but Revit let you actually have intelligent sections and elevtions that didn't have to be "updated", and it had an awsome family editor.

I never seriously looked at the Bently products. I visited a both once and wasn't impressed. There architectural version looked too much like ADT, and their representative couldn't answer half of my questions or get the program to work for his demo.

[Roger Evans]

You've hit on one of my sore points here

I bought into Revit because of its apparent simplicity to learn & use plus the absolutely fantastic back up training packages (The good old days)

What I see with each new version of Revit is more complicated & intricate methods of working introduced. There are huge areas of Revit I still haven't grasped ~ how to do & these would require more time to learn so I find myself looking for simpler work arounds. Not the best way I know but I have a business to run so must look for the most expedient way of communicating the design.

I have always argued that simplicity is the key factor for the success of Revit ~ and still do.

The way I see it is that everyone should get up to Guru status in short time ~ it should not be restricted to a few.
Anything that brings us back on that track would get my full support.

My thanks to all here for helping understand.

Cheers

Roger

[sbrown]

I started with revit in release 1 and it was truely simple. But like you said as we ask and revit deleivers new features, the complexity grows, I think this is true with any software, the more commands, features, etc. the more there is to learn. So its nice to get up to speed with revit early, then just have to learn whats new with each release.

[PeterJ]

I also think, Roger, in response to your concerns regarding the investment of time, that many of the things that I have put the time into learning have then repaid almost immediately. Certainly my use of tagging makes a big difference in time spent to annotate and there are similar gains elsewhere.

For me the biggest thing to remember is that each time I find something that helped a little, I need to go back and put it in the standard template.