Cintiq 21UX

[GuyR]

http://www.wacom.com/lcdtablets/index.cfm

Cintiq 21UX , surely this is the must have Revit accessory? And only 1/2 the cost of a Revit license :-)

[Henry D]

Boy is that tempting! I am going to buy a new LCD screen sometime this year, so if I subtract out the cost of a new 21" LCD with that kind or resolution, the $2,500 cost is really more like $1,600. If anyone gets one of these for Revit, I sure would be interested in hearing how it goes.

[gordie_v]

Here is Something even better than the Cintiq

Here (http://www.hp.com/sbso/buyguides/pg_tablet_pcs.html)

and it costs less than3g. and it can do So Much more

[Les Therrien]

I'd rather have the WACOM!

[Steve_Stafford]

I'd rather have the WACOM!Me too...I've been using the 18" version for the last few months and I love it. It doesn't appeal to everyone though, I'd say about 2 out of 10 walk away wishing they had one after they see it. Most object to holding their arm up on the screen all day as opposed to laying an arm on the desk and pushing a mouse around. The comment Bryan Sutton made about his hand blocking his view is also very true. I do find my head is at an angle often to compensate and that might not be too good for posture ultimately. I definitely like the interface, reaching out and "touching" the model!!

[rhys]

Is any one using the Cintiq 21UX with Revit an if so which keys have you found it best to map the cintiq Express keys to?

[gbrowne]

It would be funny to get the jigsaw out and cut a hole in an old drawing board and sit that thing in there.. I have been wanting an electronic drawing board since the first time I saw Revit, I think it would be amazing!

[rhys]

It would be funny to get the jigsaw out and cut a hole in an old drawing board and sit that thing in there.. I have been wanting an electronic drawing board since the first time I saw Revit, I think it would be amazing!
Now strangly enough I think you are on to something ergonomically, I think I need a lower desk.

[nicholas_baum]

Well if you are into DIY check out this website and build your own.
http://www.bongofish.co.uk/wacom/wacom_pt1.html

I going to give it a try as soon as I get some free time.

Nick
-----------------------
Nicholas Baum
Chaleff & Rogers, Architects
Water Mill, NY 11976
www.chaleffandrogers.com
www.renderworkshop.com

[ws]

er, I actually have 2 Wacom Cintiqs - one each side of me so that I can use the same pen on both computers.

Yes it works very well with Revit - the keys on the tablet are assignable but I just use the default of the strips for zooming and the Shift/CtrlAlt keys in conjunction with the pen.

The pen has a switch on the barrel which rocks to give middle click and right-click (or whatever you want).

I originally changed to the Cintiqs as I use reading glasses and I hate using a mouse to 'draw' with - it is very relaxing to work with - and you can still plug in a mouse to the PC if you wish.

Expensive but superb gadget.

The latest model has a slightly larger bezel around it compared to the original 21" ux.

[rhys]

er, I actually have 2 Wacom Cintiqs - one each side of me so that I can use the same pen on both computers.

Yes it works very well with Revit - the keys on the tablet are assignable but I just use the default of the strips for zooming and the Shift/CtrlAlt keys in conjunction with the pen.

The pen has a switch on the barrel which rocks to give middle click and right-click (or whatever you want).

I originally changed to the Cintiqs as I use reading glasses and I hate using a mouse to 'draw' with - it is very relaxing to work with - and you can still plug in a mouse to the PC if you wish.

Expensive but superb gadget.

The latest model has a slightly larger bezel around it compared to the original 21" ux.
Since I've bought onr I'm going to have to like it!!
I asked the question about Express keys because I've changed one to "Tab" since this is so impoertant when selecting elements in Revit

[rhys]

Well if you are into DIY check out this website and build your own.
http://www.bongofish.co.uk/wacom/wacom_pt1.html

I going to give it a try as soon as I get some free time.

Nick
-----------------------
Nicholas Baum
Chaleff & Rogers, Architects
Water Mill, NY 11976
www.chaleffandrogers.com
www.renderworkshop.com
I think I'll stick with plumbing

[ws]

great tip Rhys - allocating one button to 'Tab' - what a good idea :-)

I allocate 'Esc' to the 'eraser' on the end of the pen.


By the way, I've had Cintiqs for a few years now and one 'died' on me a few months ago (it was just the backlight had gone but that means no visible display).

In the UK I think they have a 2 year warranty.
Anyway, I emailed Wacom support, they called me up from Germany, confirmed the fault and a brand new Wacom was despatched by courier - 5 minutes after that one arrived TNT called me to arrange pick-up of the 'dead' one.
Pretty amazing service.

[ws]

Just discovered an interesting thing with the Wacoms.

I have a 2nd regular monitor attached to my graphics card as well as the Cintiq.

Controlling that display required a mouse as the Cintiq pen would not 'cross over' on to the regular monitor when the display is set up as 'dual view' - i.e. your desktop is stretched horizontally but your icons remain on the main screen (the cintiq).

Anyway, I've just plugged in a regular Wacom Intuos tablet, an A4 one I use for laptop use, to the same PC the Cintiq is connected to, and it automatically sets the pen to the 2nd screen.
As you can use the same Intuos pen over multiple Wacoms to access the 2nd screen I just move the pen off the cintiq and on to the A4 Wacom.
http://www.lakedistrict-architect.co.uk/Revit/office1.jpg

Very clever - no idea why it works, but it's very handy ;-)


PS - I notice you cannot drag Revit windows out of the application window on to the other screen.

[rhys]

Just discovered an interesting thing with the Wacoms.

I have a 2nd regular monitor attached to my graphics card as well as the Cintiq.

Controlling that display required a mouse as the Cintiq pen would not 'cross over' on to the regular monitor when the display is set up as 'dual view' - i.e. your desktop is stretched horizontally but your icons remain on the main screen (the cintiq).

Anyway, I've just plugged in a regular Wacom Intuos tablet, an A4 one I use for laptop use, to the same PC the Cintiq is connected to, and it automatically sets the pen to the 2nd screen.
As you can use the same Intuos pen over multiple Wacoms to access the 2nd screen I just move the pen off the cintiq and on to the A4 Wacom.
http://www.lakedistrict-architect.co.uk/Revit/office1.jpg

Very clever - no idea why it works, but it's very handy ;-)


PS - I notice you cannot drag Revit windows out of the application window on to the other screen.
Wacom actually use this feature as a part of their marketing. Unfortunately my Graphire is too antique to do this. I can see I'll have to spend some more on another tablet.
William, that set up looks remarkably familiar. Do I spot a ViewsonicVP211b there!!? Incidentally on my set up the project browser CAN be dragged to the second monitor. Unfortunately it wont stay there from session to session.

[ws]

It's an Eizo 21" lcd. The other Cintiq is out of picture on the right.

Thanks for the tip - yes, the project browser will shift outwith the main Revit window but not the view windows... which is the same as Nemetschek Allplan, Archicad and other cad programmes I think.

The nice thing about having all Intuos 3 gear is the way the same pen is recognised on all tablets.

[Maximillian]

This will be closer than we think.... scroll down to see video...
http://www.multitouchlcd.net/

Apple will be releasing a multi-touch LCD soon. Hopefully in June (unconfirmed)

Imagine using two hands, or one hand and a stylus.

[ron.sanpedro]

I would rather use a 3DConnexion Spaceball. Another (albeit cooler!) form of 2D input for a fully 3D applications really doesn't do much for me. I want a 3D input device, and that means a Spaceball or similar. Hopefully the Factory can work that into the mix for 2008.1!

Gordon

[Maximillian]

My feeling is that by having 2 hands for input, you could really get smoking. One hand to control zoom/pan/orbit/design bar/project browser & the other to place objects. Maybe its because i am doing an electrical plan right now and could see it working smoothly for that.

Some of these screens also can scan documents. lay it on the screen->scan-> place directly on CD sheet.

[Steve_Stafford]

...I allocate 'Esc' to the 'eraser' on the end of the pen...Does this mean that you have a small dent in your forehead where you hit the "eraser" to ESC?? :smile:

If I worked at home enough I'd be getting one of these too! I miss the one I used while I worked at WATG especially since they got the 21's now too!

[ws]

Do you know Steve, I never thought of that... I wonder if it works... ouch!

No.. you can't get your head and the button near enough to the screen :lol:


Great gadget though - I'd be lost without my 2 Cintiqs

[Phil Read]

I'm beta testing the 21UX. Very impressed!

Anyone figured how to map the eraser to the delete function?

[ws]

In the Wacom setup dialog (in Control Panel),
choose the Grip pen and then click the Eraser tab.
Click Keystroke in the dropdown list and when the little box appears hit the Delete key on the keyboard,
save out, naming the key and that should be Delete assigned to the eraser.

You sometimes have to click on objects with the eraser end to select and then on the 2nd tap it will delete.

FWIW I have ESC on my eraser end of the pen - a bit safer than Delete maybe ;)

[Phil Read]

Perfect! Have you found a better Pan function?

[mlgatzke]

Phil & William,

Sorry this message is SO late, but I haven't been checking the forums regularly. Real Life is just too dang busy right now.

I use have my Express Keys set to (clockwise starting with the large button in the upper-outside position) Undo, Tab, Ctrl, and Spacebar. I'd like a button set to Shift, but there are only 4 buttons. I suppose I could use the new Radial Menu, but that's too much stuff to go through to get a single selection. By the way, I'm LOVING my Cintiq 21ux, especially when I'm in late design/early design development. Early design is where I use Sketchbook Pro (this tool is still lacking for architectural design - I sure liked Architectural Studio), then create a raster file and import it into Revit and then trace it - or I just use the design sketch as a reference and build the Revit model without an image to trace. When in late DD or CD phase, I still prefer the mouse.

[ws]

I've just realised that I never use the buttons on the Cintiq - they are too far away with a keyboard between me and the screen...
(I do use the buttons for Revit shortcuts on the regular Wacom wide A5 with a regular 30" screen)

For panning I just use the middle mouse button assigned to the lower switch on the pen barrel.

I find the scrolling action of the sliders on the Cintiq isn't great for zooming in Revit - Ctrl + middle mouse button (assigned to the lower barrel switch on the pen) is much nicer, when I remember to use it, but I 'cheat' and use an Explorer Mouse as well.
They all seem to coexist.

I've just had an email to say that Sketchbook Pro 2010 is being mailed to me today.
Since another thread here reactivated my interest in the old Alias Sketchbook Pro v2 I have been using it with Revit at client meetings - works fine under Vista 64.
While viewing the model in Revit I use the snapshot icon to pull the screen into Sketchbook and then start scribbling on it. Then file it away.

And here's a novelty - no subscription on SBP 2010 - you just buy the product and that's the end of it... ;)

Incidentally Architectural Studio was a lot like a Nemetschek product originally designed for the Cintiq's first models and in recent years called Allplan Sketch. That now seems to have disappeared as well.

[iankids]

Hi William, Phil, Steve and others,

I am contemplating moving up to a Cintiq 21ux (Currently use a wacom bamboo tablet - which I quite like) and curious to know if you feel that you are more efficient with the cintiq vs the mouse and screen or tablet and screen which you used previously.

I tend to decide on technology purchases pretty much on whether they are likely to make me more efficient or not.

I can certainly see that the Cintiq would be pleasant to use, but do you get more stuff done?

Any insights would be appreciated.

Thanks

Ian

[Phil Read]

Hi Ian -

You know how time flies when you're doing something enjoyable? I can't measurably claim that it saves time - but it's a joy to use. Talk to you local rep and inquire about a demo unit and a 30 day evaluation period. Couple of things:
1. Install the drivers. Plug and play works - but you'll want to program the side buttons.
2. I'm a big OSX fan - but the handwriting recognition in Vista puts OSX's Inkwell to shame. :)
3. You'll still need a keyboard.

-Phil

[iankids]

Hi Ian -

You know how time flies when you're doing something enjoyable? I can't measurably claim that it saves time - but it's a joy to use. Talk to you local rep and inquire about a demo unit and a 30 day evaluation period. Couple of things:
1. Install the drivers. Plug and play works - but you'll want to program the side buttons.
2. I'm a big OSX fan - but the handwriting recognition in Vista puts OSX's Inkwell to shame. :)
3. You'll still need a keyboard.

-Phil

Thanks for your insight Phil.

I will have a chat to the local supplier & see if I can arrange a demo for a week or so.

Out of interest.

Are you a keyboard shortcut person or more a pick & click mouse driven user? Coming from AC I tend to be shortcut driven (particularly for the more commonly used commands), rather than mouse/tablet picking icons.

Ian

[ws]

I doubt if they will tell you when, but there must be an Intuos 4 version of the Cintiq on its way (currently it uses Intuos 3 technology), which might be a consideration if you are in no great rush?

While on the subject I came across a tip for cad users on a Wacom forum.

In Control Panel, in the Wacom tablet properties dialog, set the slider 'Tip Double Click Distance' to 'Off'.

They reckon it makes double clicking work better - and I would tend to agree.

[Phil Read]

Hi Ian - I tend to use shortcuts with the laptop, but not so much with the touchscreen. There are some programmable keys on the side of the monitor and I've programmed those.

-Phil

[mlgatzke]

Ian,

When I'm designing, in Sketchbook Pro and Revit, I prefer to use the Cintiq. However, when I am ready to do some hardcore CD's (Construction Documents) I prefer the keyboard and mouse approach. At that time I just tilt up the Cintiq and use it as a monitor. Now I just wish they'd come out with a 27" or 30" model (oooh, my heart rate's going up). They also need to work on reducing the size of the cord that teathers the Cintiq to the computer.

[iankids]

Thanks Mike, Phil, Steve & William,

Had an opportunity to trial a cintiq last week. Certainly was very nice & I think I agree with Mike that for conceptual stuff it would be awesome. In the end however, I have opted for a Wacom Intuos 4 (less than $300Au compared to over $3k for the Cintiq) to replace my current Bamboo. Hopefully the programmable keys together CadWerx's neat little add on for 2010 will mean that I can minimise the Ribbon for ever and pretend that it simply doesn't exist.

Thanks again for your advice, I have appreciated all.

Happy designing all, keep those fees rolling in and the wolves from the door.

Ian

[ws]

I'm sure you'll be happy with the Intuos 4 Ian :)

Try the different nibs to see which suits you best - I like the one with the spring in the middle.

One issue I have with mine is that the programmable keys on the Intuos 4 which display the shortcut titles (if that is the model you have) assigned in the driver setup get mixed up occasionally or it just spontaneously clears them all (this is under Vista 64).

It used to happen with earlier Wacoms as well.

Make sure you have the latest Wacom driver - the one which came with my tablet was the one from last year (curiously also the only one on the Wacom Australia site for the Intuos 4 I see).

The latest one is available on the Euro or US Wacom sites:
6.1.1-3
http://www.wacom.com/downloads/drivers.php
and even that could do with improvements ;)