Example of Drawing Set Sizes

[crawfords]

One of the arguments I like to use to support the adoption of BIM is the increase in drawing set sizes over the ages. Greater complexity in building systems and greater concerns about liability have increased the number of sheets in a CD drawing set.

What I would like is a good anecdote about an old (and preferably large & well-known) building that was built from a relatively small number of sheets in the CD set. Can anybody help me out with this? Thanks.

-Crawford

[MikeJarosz]

I was at SOM for nearly 25 years. One day, the Lever House drawings were brought out of storage because the current owner wanted to restore it. We hung them up in the office gallery. There were 30 of them. When drawing by hand, you take every shortcut you can. You cannot move the image around on the sheet. A major change starts with a major erasure. Everybody has a different hand, and sometimes a drawing looks like a patchwork.

One of the women that worked on Lever was still with the firm at that time, and there were her initials right on the title block of the iconic front elevation. I forget her last name, but I remember her as Mary, and she was totally deaf.

I digitized the Chase Manhattan Tower. We basically redrew the hand drawing set. I recall there were about 60 sheets. We did it on SOM's pioneering DRAFT CAD system, which ran on a VAX 11/780. It had non-standard 1" tapes. The tapes were archived and over the years have become impossible for any hardware to read. The hand drawings live on.

SOM donated their early historical drawings to the Avery Library at Columbia. Presumably they are available by appointment. They were also microfilmed. (if you can locate a microfilm viewer somewhere.)

I worked on the interiors of 7 World Trade, the one that came down on 9/11. Base building was done by Emery Roth, who was famous for minimal drawing sets. I recall there were only about 30-35 sheets in that set. Nothing was ever drawn twice. Only one toilet detail for the entire tower. One convector cover, one drinking fountain, one of everything, all drawn around the edges of the floor plans. It wasn't pretty, but it fully described the design.

[crawfords]

Thanks, Mike - that's a perfect example!

My first Revit project was the renovation of an elementary school. originally built in 1915 (and now housing the architecture program at Portland State University). I believe the original set was 15 sheets. There was a lot of information crammed onto those sheets, though. Sometimes seemingly at random, i.e. a detail of exterior terra cotta feature on the sheet for the heating system. It was interesting to see the similarities and differences between how architectural ideas are communicated now and a century ago.

I think one of the main impediments to a wider adoption of BIM is the mindset that the physical drawings are the ultimate output of our architectural efforts. It tends to devolve Revit in the minds of some managers as just being another document production tool. There's so much more to creating a building desing than cranking out a pile of paper. Fortunately, that tendency seems to be going away (albeit slowly), and previously change-averse managers are seeing the utility of the "I" in BIM, for take-offs/estimation, post-occupancy use, automated building processes, etc.

-Crawford

[MikeJarosz]

You might look into the Frank Lloyd Wright drawing sets, especially for the houses. I recall hearing that there were only something like 10 sheets --- because he had craftsmen he could rely on, and his own dictatorial site supervision style to get things built the way he wanted it!

[patricks]

A few years ago we renovated a local community college student union. The original building was 2-story + basement with concrete columns and concrete slab floors and roof (no steel structure at all). It also has a gymnasium and had a swimming pool building (which we demolished). The original hand drawn set with all disciplines from the 1967 had just over 60 sheets (we were missing a few). Architectural by itself was only 30 sheets.

Our renovation set for the building was well over 150 sheets, with the architectural portion comprising 55 sheets.

[gbrowne]

Having been there with the isographs and the magic tape and all the rest of it, I totally agree there are too many drawings created nowadays. I had a boss years ago who complained about the amount of time spent detailing. He said in the 'old days', all the architect provided was basic plans and elevations, and it was the contractor had to work out how to build it. His argument was that building things was the builders job, designing the shape was ours....

[MikeJarosz]

Having been there with the isographs and the magic tape and all the rest of it, I totally agree there are too many drawings created nowadays. I had a boss years ago who complained about the amount of time spent detailing. He said in the 'old days', all the architect provided was basic plans and elevations, and it was the contractor had to work out how to build it. His argument was that building things was the builders job, designing the shape was ours....


Having worked in the UK (I sat between a Scot and a Geordie), and worked with architects from just about everywhere in the world, architectural practices vary by location. A French architect once explained to me that in France the architect stops at what we in the US call design development, while a Russian once told me Russian contractors build EXACTLY what is on the drawing. If it's missing, you don't get it. There is no implicit understanding of how something is put together. As Lev, my Russian friend said, if a nail is missing from the millwork, it's extra. Consequently, his drawings by American standards were overdone. We had to take them away from him when they reached 125% completion. Then there are Quantity Surveyors in the UK. Somehow in the US we get by without them.

I have heard that there are places in this world where specifications are unknown! :shock:

[david_peterson]

Having been there with the isographs and the magic tape and all the rest of it, I totally agree there are too many drawings created nowadays. I had a boss years ago who complained about the amount of time spent detailing. He said in the 'old days', all the architect provided was basic plans and elevations, and it was the contractor had to work out how to build it. His argument was that building things was the builders job, designing the shape was ours....
The difference back then was you had 10 Architects and Engineers for every Lawyer. Today you have 10 Lawyers for every Architect and Engineer. You have to detail it or the contractor is just going to request the information anyway. It's still up to them to build it, but now you have to tell them how to build it, because today, everyone gets sued. Just my 2 cents.

[gbrowne]

Then there are Quantity Surveyors in the UK. Somehow in the US we get by without them.:

EH?! Actually, what do they do again...? ;-)