Image of the Year Award

[Roger Evans]

As I get older I notice I get the occasional flash of altruism
(often accompanied by a sharp pain in my lower back)

Image of theYear Award

Thought process as follows

Suggested Ground Rules
1 Any subject matter (provided Revit / Accurender)
2 No limit to the number of submissions by anyone
3 Each Submission has fee/ pledge of say 2 dollars
4 Each Vote has fee/ pledge of say 1 dollar
(that way anyone voting for themselves has to pay a bit extra)
5 Money raised allocated to Charity
6 The winner nominates the charity

What do you think?

Can it be done ?

Cheers

Roger

please move this post to wherever

[beegee]

Nice idea Roger. ( Sounds like you may have a wiz-bang render just waitin to post ? )

Judges would need to be non-submitters. Maybe it could tie in with AU somehow, ie the judging/announcement could be there ?

Need to set ground rules about enhancements made "outside" Revit ?

Also the format for submissions - some images need to be highly compressed to be posted here, thus losing clarity.

What does everyone else think ?

[Arnel Aguel]

Why Revit and Accurender only?

How about Revit and Viz/Max too? or Revit to other 3rd party renderer?

[beegee]

I think it would need to be limited to the basic Revit package in order to maintain a level playing field for everyone.

[Arnel Aguel]

Ok, that sounds fair though.

Anyway this is for charity and not for any competition so we'll just try our best shot with accurender.

[Roger Evans]

Further Thoughts ~

Judging should be minimal ~
Best if we have a simple adjudicator (if any)
(oops put another way ~ simply an adjudictor)

My initial thoughts were to use Poll Vote
~ with no restrictions on the number of votes
Each member has to log in to vote
Votes for X, Y, Z ~ makes pledges~ logs out

Main problem as I see it is How to collect the Fee / Pledge Money
& maybe record who voted for what

I have no idea or experience of how to organise this
Don't know if it is feasible or how much time it will take to set up
The simplest method has to be the best

I would guess we would end up with a top ten set of images

Yes I agree image size should be restricted say max 250KB
(the top ten can post larger images later)

No I don't have a specific image of my own in mind ~ Anyway I would have to submit at least two ~ if only because I would not be able to decide
between them.

Anything wild & whacky stands a good chance of getting my vote

Cheers

Roger

[beegee]

AFAIK, the poll feature only allows one vote per user. Of course, you could register numerous other user names :twisted: , but we can track the IP's, ( not that we have the time or the inclination )

It would probably be best not to cast votes until all the entrants submitted, hence a cut off date for entries and an assessment period would be required. ( This is sounding like it woon't be possible before AU ! )

What about rendereings already posted in the Gallery ? can they become elegible ?

Yes, collecting the money............. hmmmm, ............. remember those old TV telethons ? Pledged $5,583,269-50 Collected $ 5,129-33 :D

[Chad Smith]

I think it would need to be limited to the basic Revit package in order to maintain a level playing field for everyone.
Bad idea. It should be for modeled in Revit and rendered in any rendering package.

I for one would be out instantly. Don't know how to use Accurender, and most importantly, don't have any families or materials setup for use with Accurender, and I'm not about to reconfigure everything.
I think you will find it is fairly common practice for users who have come across from say ADT (which I'm sure a lot of users are), who used it with VIZ, to continue using VIZ as their primary rendering software. It's what they know and is far superior to Accurender.

Please don't flame me on these comments, but I think you will be cutting the number of entrants down if restricted to Revit/Accurender.

[Arnel Aguel]

Yeah me too coming from ADT & VIZ. I've just tried using accurender a week ago and i don't think i can catch up with it.

[Steve_Stafford]

If you guys are comfortable with viz...then the rendering in Revit should be easy for you. Don't sell yourselves short. If I can render things comfortably with it you certainly can....(me selling myself short :D )

[PeterJ]

This is a nice idea Roger.

[lennartik]

Nice Idea with a competition for the best image. I would like to see using the built in accurender package, given that it is a process when you do not have to export the model to another software. I think the beauty with Revit is complete linkages of changes from CD's to presentation. :)

Paypal is a great system for small payments by the way.

www.PayPal.com

[designer56644]

If we allow third party rendering packages into the program, we cut off half the potential entrants in this forum. I know for a fact that from a final polished rendering perspective, someone with viz/max and/or photoshop experience is going to be able to smoke anyone who does not have that option, all else being equal.

Also, Accurender is way to easy...

AND ANOTHER THING! ( :shock: ):
If a modeler has developed parts/libraries outside of Revit, and enhances their base models with those, is'nt that closer to a hybrid model anyway?

Soooo, I'll make this suggestion:

Perhaps we should split the comp. if there seems to be enough interest in an outside enhancements catagory. Or perhaps we could break out catagories such as Best Final Rendering(open), and Most Creative Use Of Composition(Revit only) in order to keep these rendering types seperate. This could also foster more entries if done properly.

But I still think this contest should remain "pure" in the interest of serving it's intent (see "Suggested Rule Numero "Uno"").

[hand471037]

I agree, if it's not split between Revit & Revit/something else, or limited to just Revit alone (which I'm thinking would be cooler, really), then it's gonna be too muddled to be a good example of what Revit can do. I know when I've been exporting things to Radiance, for example, I add certain things there that Revit can't do; and I know that if I was using Max/Viz I would make heavyer use of RPC stuff...

And also, if it was limited to only Revit, then it would be possible to have it include 2D/nonrendered images as well; I've seen some very impressive looking non-render images come out of Revit too...

just my 2 cents.

[Steve_Stafford]

aah...so like SCCA racing classifications? Stock, modified, race prepared and so on... :D

[Kroke]

Perhaps we should split the comp. if there seems to be enough interest in an outside enhancements catagory. Or perhaps we could break out catagories such as Best Final Rendering(open), and Most Creative Use Of Composition(Revit only) in order to keep these rendering types seperate. This could also foster more entries if done properly.

I agree completely and have entered 3d contests that do it in this manner. (Product specific, and 'enhanced' or 'open')

[funkman]

:?: A revit competition that allows other programs to be used in the competition :?: - what is being confirmed by entertaining this rule is that revit cannot be a standalone package. Self-depricating and spurious I think.

A revit competition that allows works completed only within the revit realm - only that makes sense to me.

However, my quetion is - will the design of the project form a strong basis of the competition, or only the quality of the rendering?

[PeterJ]

aah...so like SCCA racing classifications? Stock, modified, race prepared and so on... :D

This RPC person has a stage two head!

[fernando]

in my opinion ( if it count's)
it must be a Revit only work....
the more advanced guy's could publish their work in the gallery where we all love to see nice work's

the spirit i think is,
let's show what revit do..... in a couple of hour's..not in week's of work :P

[bclarch]

Since the intent is to showcase Revit then I agree that only allowing Revit/Accurender renderings is the way to go. My sense is that most Revit users intend Revit to be their "do it all" workhorse and don't have the desire (or wallet) to become experts on multiple pieces of software. Keeping it "Revit only" will provide a better view of what the "average" architect can expect to accomplish with this specific software tool. I agree that there are many ways to create more polished images but the point is to see what can be done with Revit.

[gregcashen]

I agree. Revit only...otherwise it will just be a rendering competition, rather than a Revit showcase.

[Chad Smith]

...otherwise it will just be a rendering competition
Topic header = 'Image of the Year Award'
Wouldn't that suggest that it's a rendering competition.

Why not keep it to just Revit then, with shaded 3D views. I guess Accurender is not 'officially' part of Revit, but rather additional software that you are licensed to use.

People are talking about that it should be a competition to display what Revit can do, so lets leave Accurender out of it then.

[gregcashen]

Topic header = 'Image of the Year Award'
Wouldn't that suggest that it's a rendering competition.


Ohh. Nasty. Well I can be nasty too. I hereby nominate Chad to notify the Archicad, ADT, Vectorworks, FormZ...newsgroups and usergroups of our Image of the Year Award. They ought to be able to compete under your rules.

In fact, I think that as part of the process, there should be ZERO mention of the tools/methods used to achieve the submitted images until after voting has ended.

G

[Chad Smith]

:shock: Sorry Greg, that wasn't supposed to be nasty.
Here, let me apply some emoticons. :D :lol: :) :o :D :)

[gregcashen]

:shock: Sorry Greg, that wasn't supposed to be nasty.
Here, let me apply some emoticons. :D :lol: :) :o :D :)

I didn't really think it was nasty nasty...nasty is good sometimes. I was just trying to respond in like sarcastic terms. :roll: :lol: :) :shock: :? 8) :lol: :cry: :oops: :P :? :( :o :lol: 8) :oops: :roll: :cry: :lol:

[Steve_Stafford]

Okay both of you are out of emoticontrol!...step away from the emoticons, put your hands in the air and count to ten. Any more warnings and you'll be emoticonless for three days!! (can I actually do that Z, probably not I s'pose) (see I posted this without one emoticon) oh alright here's one... :D

[beegee]

Don't you know promises were never made to keep?
Just like the night, dissolve in sleep
I'll be your savior, steadfast and true
I'll come to your emoticon rescue
I'll come to your emoticon rescue.

You think you're one of a special breed
You think that you're his pet Pekinese
I'll be your savior, steadfast and true
I'll come to your emoticon rescue
I'll come to your emoticon rescue.

etc

Don't you have a Rendering to get done??

[PeterJ]

You have such a beautiful falsetto, beegee.

[designer56644]

Alrighty then.....

Now that were past that emoticonal moment, and the soothing musical interlude, what next?
Render Catagories?
Subcatagories for Res./Comm.?

Or just one pristine "Image of the Year" regardless of the genre?

Put it to a vote (even one amoungst the mods only?)

Then,

Lets draw:).

Vote Now and Vote Often. See the Poll posted.]... beegee

[beegee]

Ok, voting has closed. And the results.... envelope please, ... are ..

Just Accurender ( No paint program )
47% [ 19 ]
Accurender & a paint program
12% [ 5 ]
Any rendering program
0% [ 0 ]
Revit in 3D sketch mode (No rendering )
2% [ 1 ]
All the above with a separate category for each.
37% [ 15 ]

Total Votes : 40

So the comp will be Just Accurender, no paint, and we need a closing date for submissions.
How about 24th December 03, with voting to take place during the following week to the year's end ?

To recap, the groundrules, as suggested by Roger are :-

Suggested Ground Rules
1 Any subject matter (provided Revit / Accurender)
2 No limit to the number of submissions by anyone
3 Each Submission has fee/ pledge of say 2 dollars ($US)
4 Each Vote has fee/ pledge of say 1 dollar ($US)
(that way anyone voting for themselves has to pay a bit extra)
5 Money raised allocated to Charity
6 The winner nominates the charity

If you disgree with any of this, please post replies quickly.

We will start a Topic in the Gallery forum, where the entries can be posted.

LINK TO GALLERY TOPIC (www.zoogdesign.com/forums/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=10575#10575)

[Roger Evans]

Thanks Beegee

Been Having computer problems hence have not posted before

I think timescale should be extended until after Xmas break this would leave a quiet period for people to get it together ~ up till Xmas everyone will be flat out.
Extend Deadline till mid January? with announcement last week Jan?

Also in answer to some questions can I suggest the following
Accepting submissions to be all done in Revit Accurender

a. Any subject matter to be acceptable
b. Images previously posted in other newsgroups etc can be resubmitted for voting
c. Composite Images / cropped images / combined images acceptable
d. Any imported background acceptable.

I think the above will give a good amount of flexibility for images

Cheers

Roger

[beegee]

Roger,

That all sounds good to me.

We'll run with that, unless anyone has some other suggestions to add on.

[gregcashen]

I disagree with (c)...the one thing we all have in common is access to and an understanding of Revit. Nothing else is implied by our activity here. Not everyone can afford photoshop or has the understanding of it to make it useful here. As such, allowing cropping and otherwise enhancing of the image becomes less a Revit thing and more a rendering thing and then we should allow any rendering package to be used. Just my two cents, and I am an engineer, so it is unlikely that you will see me in the final lineup either way :wink:

[beegee]

Maybe Roger will expand on whet he meant by item (c).

My understanding is that everything is to be Revit/Accurender with no add-on program enhancement.

I assumed Roger was referring to importing a jpg image into Accurender as a background.

[Roger Evans]

Hi

Yes any background image can be imported as jpeg ... this would also imply importing any image you want .. maybe of the same project or another image altogether be it sky / backgrounds etc ... so it means that composite images can be used. Whether they can be cropped or ortherwise manipulated within Revit remains to be seen.
I think this should be possible within Revit and we all export to jpeg anyway so I don't see the problem with that.

We have the potential to produce some stunning images within Revit and I don't want to limit anyone's imagination or creativity.

Personally What I would like to see is boundaries being broken and explored rather than the best building rendering.
We are talking images here and I don't think this has to be all realism.

Well that's my thruppeny bit.

Cheers

Roger

[sbrown]

If you don't allow any croping or editing then I know I wouldn't have one to post and most users wouldn't either since every rendering we do gets exported and then opened in paint shop pro or photo shop and cropped or slightly modified(brightness/contrast mainly). So I'm not sure how many entries you will get that don't have some post processing.

[beegee]

Cropping would be fine.
IMHO, adjustments to brightness/contrast would be OK.

The poll result was that other post processing, ie photoshopping extensively, was not to be included.

[bclarch]

How about 24th December 03, with voting to take place during the following week to the year's end ?

My only issue is with the above timeframe. It coincides with many people's vacation time. The 24th submission date is OK but how about keeping the voting open through the first week of January?

[beegee]

Extend Deadline till mid January? with announcement last week Jan?


This is the revised closing date - Midnight Jan 16th 2004 (GMT)
Voting then to take place through to 31st Jan 2004.

[Kroke]

What ever happened with this? Anything?

[Roger Evans]

Not that I'm aware of ~ it got overtaken by lots of other things ~ AUGI for one

A Few Images were posted up but not as many as I thought there would be ..
and Voting arrangements still have to be decided & sorted out.