Wishlist, Suggestions, Helping each other help ourselves

[gregcashen]

Reposted from alt.cad.revit:

I have been to a lot of newsgroups and the thing that separates the Revit
groups is the quality of community. We are quick to share suggestions, tips
and tricks with one another. I have seen this with Sketchup as well, but
there are a lot of online communities that do not have this quality. I
believe it was alt.building.construction that got so out of hand for me that
I stopped watching it. In fact, I have found there is more good advice and
less bitching here and on ZDBB than any other BB/NG I have lurked at.

That said, I think it is important to make sure that we are offering
constructive criticism and advice to each other, potential new users and to
the hard-working developers in Waltham. Otherwise, we risk alienating these
people and giving the impression that this software is "not ready for
primetime." Also, we may give the developers the wrong impression about what
we feel is important in Revit...what we really need to be able to do with
it.

The easiest way to do this is to post a suggestion, wishlist item or
tip/trick on the forums at http:/www.zoogdesign.com/forums

ZDBB is, by far, the best online BB for any software program I have ever
seen. It offers:

1. Coherent advice on almost any issue that has been identified in Revit.
2. Quality discussions on the state of the CAD/BIM industry, architecture,
construction...
3. Amusing divergences into Football
4. One-on-one interaction with the men (and women, I suppose) that toil
daily to provide us with the best BIM package I have yet seen or heard of.
5. Instant answers from leading experts without any ulterior motives of
trying to sell training, upgrade software or steal customers from other
resellers.

To me, the best thing about ZDBB is the Tips and Tricks and the Wishlist.
These two forums allow us to 1) post our suggestions for future versions so
that Revit will work the way that we want it to and 2) suggest alternative
methods until those wishlit items are incorporated. With these two forums,
we have our own sort of development going on...the development of new ideas
and alternative methods to succeed with our projects.

Please don't underestimate the importance of these forums, and post there
frequently so that Revit grows in the direction that the users want.

Additionally, if you are a vocal member of the ng and ZDBB, it is possible
that Waltham will contact you directly to respond to surveys or to suggest
enhancements that you think would benefit all of us users. We must be
careful to not give them the impression that EVERY wishlist item is the most
important item. Their time is very valuable to us...the more time they spend
on features that will benefit one or two users or that are enhancements to
infrequently used tools versus focusing on the tools we really need is time
lost...and will possibly lead to bad releases of Revit.

It is important to remember that there are a lot of users here,
representing a lot of disciplines, opinions and ideas, and that we can best
help each other by listening to the needs of others and having open
discussions and making constructive criticisms (when necessary) to let the
Waltham team know when they are off...and occasionally to thank them for
their hard work and dedication to the work we do.

End of rant.

Greg

[studio3p]

... we risk alienating these
people and giving the impression that this software is "not ready for
primetime."

My biggest concern so far regarding the impression that Revit may not be ready for primetime has been with a select few responses I've read over the last several months. In these select few threads the suggested solutions have included references to performing a fix or workaround in AutoCAD. When I decided to start my own office I had to decide which software to purchase. I simply cannot afford to have AutoCAD sitting on my machine waiting to help me through a rough spot in Revit. When and if these kinds of responses crop up, I think it is important that a Revit-based solution be offered as soon as possible. Additionally, I think it goes a long way when one of the Revit developers acknowledges a true limitation and explains how that feature may be prioritized in the development line-up.

I agree that it is unfortunate that a negative comment might lead someone away from Revit. Like many users here I know AutoCAD and ADT very, very well and like so many others I recognize how much more useful and valuable Revit is to me than either AutoCAD or ADT. In my experience though, the greatest deterant to switching to better, more applicable software has been the fact that loading AutoCAD based products on multiple computers is possible. However illegal this may be, it's possible, and therefore offices are doing it. I'm sure many forum members would be happy to offer their opinion regarding their preferred method of licensing (my personal preference is the one used for VIZ 4, which is portable between computers as necessary), but the fact remains that the threat of penalty is no match for the inability to cheat in the first place.

Anyway, I got away from my point. My point is that Revit does have a few limitations, and the more honest and constructive everyone is willing to be regarding these limitations, the faster I think the software will develop, and the faster the broad adoption of Revit will be.

[gregcashen]

Regarding the reliance on Autocad, let me suggest that you look into the new Revit Series offering. If you have a license of Revit, I believe that the upgrade price to Revit Series (which includes Autocad 2004) is under $500. And the combined subscription price for Revit and Autocad under the Revit Series deal is only $795 as opposed to $695 for Revit and $420 for 2004. So basically, you can add Autocad to your Revit toolbox for under $500 up front and $100 per year. I think it is a pretty good deal, and I still see a place for autocad in my workflow.

[studio3p]

Any chance you would provide a link to more information about this?

[gregcashen]

I don't have a link, but you can talk to your reseller about it. There has been some debate about whether or not it is supposed to be public knowledge, but I was told by my reseller that it is definitely happening and that they can start giving customers pricing on it. If you want, you can call my reseller, Abigayle Campos, at AEC Technologes in Roseville, CA @ 415-593-6000. I think it goes on sale on Dec. 1

[Vincent Valentijn]

We must be careful to not give them the impression that...
...and will possibly lead to bad releases of Revit.

help each other by listening to the needs of others and having open
discussions and making constructive criticisms (when necessary) to let the
Waltham team know when they are off...and occasionally to thank them for their hard work and dedication to the work we do.


I don't think you should -overestimate- your influence... We'd better watch our words since... our talks on this forum can lead to bad releases? :shock:

...A nice suggestion to turn the forum into our personal Utopia:
Be nice, only be critical if there is no alternative left and definately don't forget to express your deep gratitude to the gods that gave us this Nirvana called Revit. :D hehe...

Ever seen Metropolis? Utopia's aren't that perfect after all...

I didn't count your posts though :wink:

[gregcashen]

Hey V,

Glad you rose to my challenge! I am not trying to make this into a personal utopia by any means. As I said, I think it is already about as good as a BB can get. And I think we should strive to keep it that way. Here and on the NG.

Trust me, I don't overestimate our influence. I have a pretty good idea of how much influence we have. Members of this board and the NG are actively engaging with the developers and product managers to steer the direction of new releases on a daily basis. I think it is clear that our constructive criticism AND advice are welcomed. But if we merely engage in destructive criticism without suggesting better methods and features, the developers will never have a clear understanding of what we expect from the program.

Try it: ask David Conant to "fix" the stair generator. He will politely respond that he would like to know what it is the stair generator is not doing properly, how you expect it to work, how you would use it, etc. Simply saying it stinks would not be good enough. My post was a shout out to everyone to be careful that the conversations we have here are, in general, constructive. I believe that is what "the Z" intended. And I believe it is a good rule of thumb for the NG too.

Greg

P.S. I am no utopian.

[designer56644]

I think that the big things I noticed here when I joined was the lack of elitist expertizing, and condesending responses that permeate other boards. (And the helpful spirit, of course).

A characteristic some boards develop after they mature and age is that the blind faith in the topic application gets wrapped up in true beleivership, paranoia, and protectionism. This telegraphs directly at the less initiated posters in alot of diffrent ways. Not good.

Also, some of "those" kind of experts respond in impatient, purposefully incomplete, or rude fashoins. Not cool.

Personal attacks and/or personal battles seem infrequent here, but if they become ugly, I hope the mods have the forsight to notify, temp ban, or send to the corner the offenders (no matter their "board status")

Lets keep on trippin-lite brothers and sisters.
It's what makes this board, and community so special.


"Check yer ego at the door, it smells funny..."

[Brian F.]

This board has been absolutely critical in helping us get up and running on Revit. We tried going through tutorials, sending questions to Revit support, etc. etc. (We're not up to speed or enthusiastic about taking the online courses.) The responses and help we've received on this board has been tremendous. The attitudes and sincere responses make others want to follow that example, I believe. I would like to contribute usefull information in that manner to return the favor one day.

Mahalo! (thank you),
Brian