Autodesk to Cut Jobs, Close Plants

[gregcashen]

Anybody read this (http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/031125/tech_autodesk_2.html)?

I wonder if the Waltham office is going to be "consolidated"...

[Scott Hopkins]

"Most of the job cuts would come in the administrative and marketing areas. The company has made a few small acquisitions in recent years and needs to consolidate some offices where vacancy rates are low."

Now that AutoDesk has moved Revit to their reseller method, my guess is that the Revit marketing staff will be the first to go.

[Melarch]

Greg & Scott,

I was recently at Waltham, MA and there is empty spaces at that facility. But I don't think they can consolidate the Reviteers with the ADT'ers. Plus, my impression is those two groups are not ready for this level of interaction as Autodesk continues to promise further releases of ADT and not to abandon the quarter million users who invested in ADT's licensed seats.

Revit's absorption of ADT users or transfer over by ADT users is still a many moons to come. Autodesk has over this year been soft pedaled Revit to it's existing ADT database and has even promoted ADT through a number of marketing strategies.

Certianly the architectural and engineering communities vested in ADT licensed seats are not looking to migrate to Revit and those firms still using AutoCAD to generate 2D construction documents are unlikely to gravitate to 3D solutions as offered by ADT, much less make a mega jump to Building Information Modeling, where the soft cost to train, redevelop and revise CAD standards, re-establish interoperability and data exchange internally and with consultants, contractors & clients, and not have access to an AutoCAD employee knowledgeable market.

No, Autodesk Revit is still a light year from acceptance by firms comfortable and secure in their AutoCAD drawing process and pending license transfer or upgrade pricing that will make the initial cash layout painless and ease the financial burden to allow companies to afford the soft cost associated with transfering to this new modeling technology.

[Scott Hopkins]

Mel,

Wow! You make Revit appear to be an entirely fringe product. It sounds like you may have a vested interest in ADT. Although I can't really say that I have my finger on the pulse of the CAD/BIM market, from my personal experience I would say that firms are a lot less reluctant to move to Revit than you may think. I have found that smaller architectural firms (30 people and under) who are currently using AutoCAD/ADT are very interested in Revit. Most offices seem to be getting just a few trial seats and then building from there. I do agree that the large firms heavily invested in ADT will take some time to come around. Another item to consider is that the majority of offices with ADT seats only use the AutoCAD portion of ADT. My experience of moving form AutoCAD/ADT to Revit has not been a painful and difficult one as you suggest. Quite the opposite, it has been extremely easy, fun and liberating.

[Melarch]

I have heard that both coasts are far more receptive to adopting Revit. This unfortunately is not the case here in the MIDwest. Of course the larger firms with many ADT seats are very heavily invested, as they have integrated many of the ADT features into their drawing process and expended lot of bucks to train and suport staff. Plus, many firms that are multidisciplined have bought into the building modules and other third party software supported by AutoCAD's/ADT's common API. Also, those large firms that are not multidiscipline have encouraged and in many cases required their consultants to invest in Building Modules to more closely integrate the architects document process. Certainly they are married to ADT through the legacy data developed over the past couple of years and would be hard pressed with ongoing client projects to rebuild theri data in Revit.

As to the medium and small architectural practices, they all love the look and feel of Revit, but still are reluctant to jump over, not because they have legacy data issues (although some do), but as I said in an early post find the initial upgrade or transfer cost expensive and do not want to undergo CAD management and standards or training program costs. The response I have received is the product looks amazing and not that difficult to integrate or learn, but what will happen to my production during this transition and will the process of integration and interoperability delay project schedules and create chaos with staff so that in this economy will delays of client deliverables diminish client confidents and reduced production getting up to speed cause eroding fees to overhead.

These are the responses I have received from over twenty presentations to architects in the Chicagoland area, four presentations made for dealers to their existing Autodesk clients and two hands-on all-day free classes I held at Moraine Valley Community College, which each had an attendance of eighteen professional representing both architectural firms and companies with internal architectural design departments. Except for two companies that attended the free Revit hands-on classes that had already purchased several seats of Revit to start a pilot project, the rest were impressed, but couldn't see transfering from ADT or AutoCAD at this time. This includes another fifty architects who attended one of the two meetings of a newly formed Revit User Group in the Chicagoland area in which I also demonstrated Revit's features and tools.

No, the MIDwest is a much tougher market to crack open for the Revit product, even though after talking to over a hundred architects, designers and drafting staff ADT user's, who most felt ADT was hard ot learn and only used a few tools (e.g. walls, doors & windows) or used their ADT as a generic AutoCAD replacing all of the ADT menus for the traditional AutoCAD menus. Still they just couldn't justify transfering over to Revit, even though they personally thought it would improve their design and construction document process after the intial learning and integration period.

In conclusion, I submit the issues I raised in my prior posting as valid for the MIDwest and maybe on a lessor scale for the rest of this country's architects who are the investors in technology nor willing to give up the old, tried and true methods and programs to race over the design hurdles with new and innovative building information modeling or bend backwards under the bar to imnprove their production capabilities. At least not yet!

[gregcashen]

I believe that the new Revit Series offering will open a lot of people's minds. Finally, autodesk is going to bundle Revit and autocad for a low price.

[Simon.Whitbread]

Finally, autodesk is going to bundle Revit and autocad for a low price.

This I will believe when I see it!

[gregcashen]

Why don't you just call your reseller...or call mine, I am sure they would appreciate the extra business!

Here are the details:

Revit Series includes AutoCAD 2004 and Revit with an annual subscription price of $795.

Upgrade from any Autocad product or Revit to Revit Series.

For instance, from AutoCAD 2000i (and related products, including ADT 2i) = ~$1595 (note this is compared to the straight upgrade from 2000i to 2004 of $845, so Revit is costing you $750 and $375/year)

The upgrade from Revit to Revit Series is even better! Autocad 2004 for next to nothing!

Of course you have to be on the subscription plan for both Revit and 2004 on the Revit Series, but those are pretty deep discounts.

By the way, if you want more info and can't get it from your reseller, try AEC Technologies @ 916-772-4266 and ask for Abigayle or 888-809-4456 and ask for Veronica.

According to AEC Tech, this offer was announced on Nov. 2 and is ready for shipping on Dec. 1.

(By the way, these prices are approximate MSRP's from memory, so if I am off a bit, don't shoot me; also, there is a good chance your reseller will discount these prices if you are bundling or upgrading multiple licenses, so the deals may be even better than this!)

[Steve_Stafford]

There's no guarantee that the same deal is available in New Zealand and your reseller probably doesn't have an office there? The deal should be available worldwide but until he confirms it with the reseller there...at what cost and when?

[gregcashen]

Ahh, didn't pay attention to the location...but the point remains, Autodesk has finally offered this much needed bundle and at what I believe is a very fair price! Whether or not it is available in NZ, it is available, and I can only imagine it will help transition otherwise timid customers into BIM...which is good...obviously.

[hand471037]

This bundle has certainly caught the ear of my current firm. Might just be enough to get them to bite and switch the whole office.

But it's a true fact that a lot of firms have so much invested into thier current systems it's hard for them to migrate, even from Acad 2000 to Acad 2004, let alone start over with a new system, no matter how efficent that new system might be over the old one!

Add to that the fact that many of the heads of the larger firms don't really understand CAD, or feel like it's never paid off in the past, or have been burned once before by AutoDesk... well sometimes it paints a pretty bleak picture.

[aaronrumple]

I object to the backwards view of the midwest.

I've just recently switch from working as an Autodesk reseller/trainier back to working as a practicing project architect. One of my criteria for firm selection was an open attitude to switching to Revit. We're now doing our first two projects and I'm sure that we'll make a much more rapid migration over the next few months.

As a past reseller, I know the good the bad and the ugly. ADT is almost 100% bad and ugly. I worked with several firms on ADT deployment. ADT has way too much overhead. Too few features are used. No one really uses much more than the plan tools. Section and Elevation from model? Still a pipe dream.

Several firms large have switched in the midwest and many more are in the process of doing so - including HOK.

[beegee]

Why don't you just call your reseller...or call mine, I am sure they would appreciate the extra business!

Here are the details:

Revit Series includes AutoCAD 2004 and Revit with an annual subscription price of $795.

I contacted my reseller about this and was told :-

The USA has a completely different marketing and price structure
So this is only a US offer :cry:
( also, US resellers are prohibited from selling product internationally )

Anyone want to arrange a green card for me ?

[gregcashen]

If we created a "company" headquartered in the U.S. that did "business" overseas, overseas employees could use licenses purchased in the U.S. and would be able to benefit from this...except for the fact that the overseas employees would probably want to upgrade licenses they hold in their own country and which, therefore, need to be upgraded in their own coutry.

Hmm. I hate EULAs with a passion.

Still...it is definitely a step in the right direction for autodesk...we can only hope it will take off and will rapidly expand to other countries...

[beegee]

A simplier solution would be for Autocad to just sell directly to everyone, regardless of national boundaries. Or maybe sell to those countries that have trade agreements in place with the US ( as the fifty - first state, we're getting ours soon :D )

Of course the Australian Tax Office would hate it because they couldn't get their slice then.