Blockwork Inner Leaf Returns

[design711471]

Hi Just starting out with Revit

Have looked though various forums and threads and not yet found what we need.

On a masonry cavity wall, how do you get the inner leaf of blockwork to return to the outer brick leaf leaf, at windows and door inserts.

I can force it to happen by moving the block inner leaf out of the core boundary, but then internal partition abutments don't show properly. I have also read threads about using wall closing reference lines in the window/door family, but the door family I am using (revit standard one) already has these.

Please can someone tell me how to do this?

[Dimitri Harvalias]

Hi and welcome to the forums.
If you could post an image illustrating the condition you are trying deal with that would be helpful.
I think I know what you are after but the image would clarify.

[design711471]

Thanks Dimitri

'Image A' attached is the arrangement we need to achieve, but I have only managed to do this by moving the blockwork inner leaf out of the core boundary and the result is that internal partitions don't interface with the external wall properly (i.e. the run though to the inner face of the brickwork outer leaf, rather than stopping at the inside face of the blockwork inner leaf).

'Image B' attached shows what happens when the blockwork inner leaf is within the core boundary (which appears to be the revit default arrangement for cavity walls). With this I cant get the block inner leaf to return at all.

Hopefully this is something simple that I am missing. Can you tell me how to achieve the arrangement in Image A, but with the block inner leaf within the core boundary / the internal partitions abutting the external wall as they should - i.e. automatically stopping at the inside face of the inner leaf of blockwork.

Thanks102245102246

James

[david_peterson]

I believe when you look at your wall assembly there's a check box for "Wrap at Ends" in the in the lower portion of the wall structure dialog box.
Set the default wrapping for "At Inserts" to Exterior. That should do what you want it to do.
Hope this helps.

[design711471]

Thanks Dave

I have looked at this, wrapping "At Inserts" was set to "Both" by default, I changed it to "Exterior" but it didn't make any difference, I also tried changing it to "interior" still no difference.

Still need to find the solution, any other thoughts?

[david_peterson]

Can you post a revit model with the Wall family and door you're trying to put in it?
I don't really need anything else. It'd just be nice to take a look at. Helps me figure out what the issue might be.
Then I can take a look, and see if I can fix it and send it back.
Thanks.

[design711471]

Dave

I tried to upload the Revit file for you to look at (via the upload image button), but it says the file size limit is 2mb & the file is about 6mb, have I missed something, is there another way to upload Revit files?

[Dimitri Harvalias]

Core walls do not wrap so if the outer layer is the core then it won't work. If the entire thickness of the wall is defined as a single assembly then just place the inner layer outside the core, set the air space to be the core and set the outer layer outside the core.
If the Wall Closure parameters are already in the door and checked properly that should fix the problem.
As noted in the image, just checking Wrap at Inserts in the wall type properties has no effect if the Wall Closure ref planes are not present in the door or window family
102252

[design711471]

Dimitri

Thank you for your response

You mentioned:

"If the entire thickness of the wall is defined as a single assembly then just place the inner layer outside the core, set the air space to be the core and set the outer layer outside the core."

this is how I achieved the arrangement in Image A, attached earlier in the tread, however with the core boundaries set either side of the air space, the internal partitions do not abut the external wall correctly (i.e. rather than automatically stopping at the inside face of the inner blockwork leaf, the run through to the inner face of the outer brickworks leaf, as attached Image C) here in lies my problem.
102254102255
You also mentioned

"If the Wall Closure parameters are already in the door and checked properly that should fix the problem. As noted in the image, just checking Wrap at Inserts in the wall type properties has no effect if the Wall Closure ref planes are not present in the door or window family"

I have checked and the door family I am using (the revit default 'Doors_ExtSgl_FlushExts' family) has two wall closure reference planes, both with wrapping parameters. Copy of the door family attached if you want to open it up.

I would upload the revit file with the door inserted into the wall, but it is 6mb and the upload image button says there is a 2mb file size limit.

Still need to find the solution, any other thoughts?

[Dimitri Harvalias]

As you've discovered the core of the interior wall will 'push' its way into the core of the abutting wall. The only way to prevent this is to use the 'Disallow Joins' option on the interior walls.
I did look at the door family and the parameters are present. It's a matter of adjusting them to suit the wall thickness.
Not sure what else I can suggest.

[design711471]

Thanks Dimitri

Dave, I have managed to get the file size down for the Revit files, attached:
102261
102262

These relate to the PDFs and description in the previous posts.

Please can you have a look and see if you have any thoughts of how to resolve the issue?

Thanks