Calculated Value in Tags Feature - A Myth?

[aceman6009]

For a primer, watch this YouTube video where a guy shows off the ability of Revit 2017 to have calculated values in family tags and calculated values in the project speak to each other:

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH5Q9Bv6DAE

The idea here is grand and folks that have had to use work-arounds (like a dumby shared param manually filled out to reflect a calc value sitting next to it in a schedule #ghettoBIM) for things like occupancy tags probably immediately get perky upon discovery. My issue is in the practical usage and implementation of such feature. In the YouTube video linked above, listen to the dude from 35 seconds to 42 seconds. This is where what I am perceiving as a 'bust' occurs. I'll explain.

The "Occupancy_Factor" shared parameter he mentions should be coming from a key schedule, not a shared parameter. Let's live in his universe where the Occupancy_Factor was a shared parameter for a second, though. So say it's an appropriately named shared parameter applied to rooms in the project. Now what? Because Rooms don't have Type parameters, are you supposed to lookup and retype an occupancy factor for every room at the Instance level? All the while rooms are being created, copied, moved, renamed, etc? One could see how this would easily stack up to more work than the workaround people are used to.

Here's another dude giving a spill on it. Zoom to 5:48 - 6:02. Again, the assumption here is that a Shared Parameter is going to be the solution. What about key schedules containing tons of data waiting and wanting to be used? :

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88hJCwYaxkA

So what then? Has anyone out there implemented this new feature into their templates? If you have, are you like me sitting here with the sexiest key schedules in the world, crying from the face because they'd be useless in relation to this "upgrade"?

I may be missing a step here but I've been a Revit user for few moons. Am I smoking something? Things I should try? Do differently?

All the best
- Ace

[david_peterson]

We're still waiting for the first service patch to fix the rest of the beta issues so to speak.
We've got a totally different approach.
We have a person in our office that looks at all of the occupancy's and dump all that data in to a grand spread sheet in excel.
What we've done is just create a schedule for him to look at. Our Code guy fills out his spread sheet and we import that into revit and paste it on a sheet. (I should mention he used to do Life Safety Reviews so he knows exactly what they are looking for). So that's how we handle that.
On the other side of things we have a tag that we use to Show Planned vs Max Allowed on Egress paths using a global parameter added to a dimension string.
Works rather slick.
But we were hoping to do a lot more with the Calculated values in Tags as you are suggesting. We just having installed 2017 yet.

[aceman6009]

Appreciate the response David. It's really good to hear about solutions other folks have found. I've realized the battle between 'tech solving complexity' and 'tech creating complexity' is a figure 8 and forums like this are meant to take some torture out of the cycle.

So when I hear things like excel and importing, I feel like you've found a workflow that works well for your team given the tools (or lack of) out of the box. If it works, then it works. I'll add a suggestion to yours as a PM for a small biz using Google Business Apps and say that if you had the spreadsheet as a Google Sheet then it would even be collaborative in terms of working together simultaneously with folks during creation, commenting, etc. Collaborative in a way that the schedule tool in Revit can't brag about even in worksharing mode. Alas, still resulting in an export disconnected from the model. Which brings us back to a common situation which is this:

Both of us, despite the latest addition of calculated values in tag families, can't utilize tags in a BIM-like fashion that takes advantage of an accessible database. David refers to the database as a "grand spread sheet in excel". I have database info in the form of a keynote schedule sitting in Revit from the start. Neither of us can tap into either even with this latest addition, is my point. All the videos I referenced in my last post where the guy is showing the beneficial results of this upgrade appear to hide a dirty, little secret. A human being had to visually gauge the occupancy function of each space and manually assign an occupancy factor... to each space! Only after such maneuver do you get to the ooh-ahh factor of automation. I have a feeling the programmers behind this feature forgot that key schedules, chocked full of info like 'Occupancy Factor per Use' were sitting seductively right there, ready to save the day.

Again, unless I'm not seeing the correct path here.

Open to suggestions here from anyone with 2017 experience and calculated values...

[david_peterson]

Funny that you mention the disconnected Data as a flaw. That's part of the reason we left it separate. There's a ton of work that goes into developing life safety plans and documentation when you working on large complex buildings with multiple occupancy's and occupancy separations and the like. Part of the reason we left it not linked was to make sure "Accidents" didn't happen. For Example I had someone the other day accidentally add the Room Number parameter to a room Key schedule. I believe they also added the Name. Several hours later they we finished adding back in all of the room names and numbers that were deleted. It's little things like that why I like the idea of it being separate. Smaller projects I'm sure this is a hindrance, but imaging a large (say 500ksf) project with multiple uses, spaces, separations and 15-20 people working on multiple models. Someone deletes the wrong thing and blamo. With the excel setup we have, you can still look at all the options without having to change the model as a bonus as well. Or the "How big can I make this before I need to think about adding additional stairs". While I'd love for Revit to do all of these tasks independently with very little additional input, I'm not sure it's possible. I'd guess for 50% of our projects the Fed is it's own regulator and there is no "Technical" building code. So we always have little exceptions.
The other one I've heard is that Life Safety is as much of an Art as it is a Science. There's exceptions for just about every rule. And in many cases, you just need to ask the question or provide another means to fulfill the intent of the code.

But yes I'd like to do all the things it says it can do, and do it smartly. However if you put 100 Architects in a room and ask them all to tell you the best way to do a door schedule, I'd bet you'd get at least 50 "Correct" Answers. We don't all do things exactly the same way. So what we (As BIMPanzee's) need to figure out is how to the program (Revit) to do the thing you want it to and how you want it to, not how it wants to. ie Curtain Wall as a Railing Object, Railings as Curtain wall, Curtain walls to do truss layouts, or How to get Multiple Phases of Demolition to show up on one sheet.

[sash.kazeminejad288046]

Hello Friends,

I happen to be the guy that is referenced in the second video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88hJCwYaxkA) and I wanted to give you a little background on how I created that video.

First off, I echo Ace's comments about the Calculated Values to Tags. When I was playing around with this workflow, I also found that it did not deal with the fact that Key Schedule Data cannot be created as Shared Parameters, which is why I did not create the video showing the Occupancy Calculation workflow. Instead, I focused on Area Calculation's because you do not have to rely on Key Schedule Data. For this workflow, the Calculated Values to Tags feature works well. Before creating this video, I did run my workflows with another co-worker of mine and we both agreed that you still have to manually enter the tag value, so for Occupancy Calculations, I still use the "traditional method' of manually entering tag values. In addition, I teach the Occupancy Calculations feature to live audiences using Revit 2017 and I still talk about the old workflow.

So why did I mention using Occupancy Calculations to Tags? The reason why is that I have some customers who do not use Key Schedules for this workflow, so in essence, they are utilizing the methods shown in the first video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH5Q9Bv6DAE).

Once we get the opportunity to have Shared Key Schedule Parameters, then the automation of Calculated Values to Tags should work well. I am keeping my fingers crossed. I will also reach out to Autodesk to have a chat about this issue. It has been on my list for quite some time.

Sash Kazeminejad
Ideate, Inc

[ameliephaine]

Any update on this? I have the *exact* same struggle as OP and it has me pulling my hair out. When I heard about tagging calculated values in Revit 2017 I was SO excited to finally get the occupancy schedule I'd always dreamed of. But alas and alack...not so.

Stupid solution: make different "Occupancy Load Factor" shared parameters for every single occupancy type, and categorize them as "project information." THEN you should be able to add them to key schedules and only have to fill it out once! But you still have to do piles of different calculations! WOW! (note: this is a horrible solution that I will not be using, but it just goes to show how silly it is that we are still dealing with this issue after years and YEARS of telling AutoDesk it's a problem. What are they doing with our bajillions in subscription money anyways??)

*sigh*