Central File Permission Hell

[drubinoff]

Hi,

My colleague and I set up central files and then, for every element either of us tries to touch...even copying text...we have to give the other permission. This impossible workflow has been going on for years and is absurd and unproductive.

There should be a wizard which sets up central files so this nonsense doesn't happen.

Could someone please explain to us the proper way to set us a central file for a small team so that we can work with a normal workflow? It is not obvious to our office of experienced Revit users including myself.

Thanks,
Derek

[CAtDiva]

I have a few troubleshooting thoughts:

1) After you create & save the central file, but before you close it to open your own local file, do you SWC and check the "User Created Worksets" box to relinquish the worksets you just created? This box does not check automatically, so you have to be sure to check it or you will "own" everything in that workset.
2) Are all teammates creating a new local every time they open the project?
3) When your colleague or you SWC, do you relinquish everything?

[DaveP]

Regarding CAts #2:
Are you opening the project from Revit?
NEVER open a workshared Revit project by double-clicking on it from Windows Explorer.
For that matter, i recommend you never use the "Recent Files", either.
Always open Revit first, then click Open Project, then browse to the Central file.
Click (once) on the .rv file, make sure the "Create new Local" box is checked, and only then should you click the Open button.

Also, when saving and closing, set the QAT icon to "Synchronize and Modify Settings". That's the one with the little green arrows on it.
If your icon is set to "Synchronize Now" (with the yellow lightning bolt), it may not relinquish everything.

[david_peterson]

I've been using Revit for 10+yrs with worksharing enabled on projects with up to 15 team members working in it.
Create your new file, activate worksets, save it as a central. Open the file and create a new local, save to central and make sure you use the dialog box to relinquish all elements and worksets.

Follow the best practices as listed above.
Create new locals every time you open. Use the Audit box (this is just a good habit) every time you open. Relinquish All Mine before you save back to central.
Workflow works great as long as everyone follows it.

- - - Updated - - -


Regarding CAts #2:
Are you opening the project from Revit?
NEVER open a workshared Revit project by double-clicking on it from Windows Explorer.
For that matter, i recommend you never use the "Recent Files", either.
Always open Revit first, then click Open Project, then browse to the Central file.
Click (once) on the .rv file, make sure the "Create new Local" box is checked, and only then should you click the Open button.

Also, when saving and closing, set the QAT icon to "Synchronize and Modify Settings". That's the one with the little green arrows on it.
If your icon is set to "Synchronize Now" (with the yellow lightning bolt), it may not relinquish everything.

Yes, Yes and Yes

[drubinoff]

I've been using Revit for 10+yrs with worksharing enabled on projects with up to 15 team members working in it.
Create your new file, activate worksets, save it as a central. Open the file and create a new local, save to central and make sure you use the dialog box to relinquish all elements and worksets.

Follow the best practices as listed above.
Create new locals every time you open. Use the Audit box (this is just a good habit) every time you open. Relinquish All Mine before you save back to central.
Workflow works great as long as everyone follows it.

- - - Updated - - -



Yes, Yes and Yes

Hi David,

Thanks for your post. I think we did all the steps you mention. However, when I go to Synchronize with Central, all the boxes under "After synchronizing, relinquish the following worksets and elements:" are grayed out.

[david_peterson]

Are you on an A360 project using C4R by chance?
The only time I've ever seen that was when either the model was opened incorrectly, or you lost the network connection due to poor connectivity or you're opening across a WAN.
Can you provide a little more information on your exact process.
I've also seen these issues when people were trying to use Drop Box as a host for the Central File.
The more info you can provide on the setup of the network and your exact workflow the better answer we can get you.

[drubinoff]

Are you on an A360 project using C4R by chance?
The only time I've ever seen that was when either the model was opened incorrectly, or you lost the network connection due to poor connectivity or you're opening across a WAN.
Can you provide a little more information on your exact process.
I've also seen these issues when people were trying to use Drop Box as a host for the Central File.
The more info you can provide on the setup of the network and your exact workflow the better answer we can get you.

Thx for your post. I am not doing anything unusual. The central file is on our server here in the office. The server is a NAS drive.

[david_peterson]

Is the licence server located on the same LAN? Or is the revit license being pulled from somewhere else?
If everything is all in the same location and you have issues on every project then I'm at a loss.
Only other suggestion I can offer is to open the file detach and do a save as and create a new central file.
That also tends to clean thing up.
I do that about once a month.

Opps one other dumb question. Are you guys checking out worksets or just borrowing elements?
We tend to always borrow as this causes less issues.

[drubinoff]

Is the licence server located on the same LAN? Or is the revit license being pulled from somewhere else?
If everything is all in the same location and you have issues on every project then I'm at a loss.
Only other suggestion I can offer is to open the file detach and do a save as and create a new central file.
That also tends to clean thing up.
I do that about once a month.

Opps one other dumb question. Are you guys checking out worksets or just borrowing elements?
We tend to always borrow as this causes less issues.

There is no "licence server". Each desktop has its own license.
We have a simple LAN which connects the NAS to the desktops.
Looking at the Worksets dialog box, it looks like sometimes one of the other users is a borrower of a workset and other times is not. I'm not sure how to change that or if we need to. Thx.

[david_peterson]

When you are "Borrowing" worksets or items, it means you've pulled them of the book shelf to take a look at them. When you save and relinquish, you put them back.
When you check out a workset, you're taking the workset and all the elements that belong to it out of the "library".
This is one of the better ways I've seen it explained.
http://revitoped.blogspot.com/2005/09/take-me-to-library.html
Steve does a great job and breaking down worksets.
The key is to make sure you're are relinquishing when you save.
I hope this helps.

[CAtDiva]

In general (or in theory), no one should actually need to check out a full workset because Revit now has the capability to check out individual items as you modify them.

With that said, if am experiencing lag when checking out objects, and I am the only one working on a project, I will sometimes check out the whole workset so my local computer doesn't have to constantly query the server. This may be what your colleague is doing. But when I am finished for the day (or session, if shorter), when I do my last SWC, I make sure to check the "User Created Worksets" box in the SWC dialog ... this is the only box that is not automatically checked by Revit.

[drubinoff]

When you are "Borrowing" worksets or items, it means you've pulled them of the book shelf to take a look at them. When you save and relinquish, you put them back.
When you check out a workset, you're taking the workset and all the elements that belong to it out of the "library".
This is one of the better ways I've seen it explained.
http://revitoped.blogspot.com/2005/09/take-me-to-library.html
Steve does a great job and breaking down worksets.
The key is to make sure you're are relinquishing when you save.
I hope this helps.

Thanks. Again, yes we seem to be borrowing entire sets, but how can we not? All of the relinquish items in the Synchronize with Central window are grayed out. Now we're having this same problem on yet another project. I don't understand how to get this so that we're borrowing items rather than worksets.

- - - Updated - - -


In general (or in theory), no one should actually need to check out a full workset because Revit now has the capability to check out individual items as you modify them.

With that said, if am experiencing lag when checking out objects, and I am the only one working on a project, I will sometimes check out the whole workset so my local computer doesn't have to constantly query the server. This may be what your colleague is doing. But when I am finished for the day (or session, if shorter), when I do my last SWC, I make sure to check the "User Created Worksets" box in the SWC dialog ... this is the only box that is not automatically checked by Revit.

Thanks CAtDiva, but all the boxes in SWC under "After synchronizing, relinquish the following worksets and elements" are grayed out. I don't know why. And, in the Worksets dialog box, it says that Workset1 is borrowed by my colleague. He sees in his window that the same workset is borrowed by me.

[drubinoff]

Our central files will not let us make an element editable; they require borrowing the entire workset. This is the gist of the problem. How do we fix this?

[CAtDiva]

Our central files will not let us make an element editable; they require borrowing the entire workset. This is the gist of the problem. How do we fix this?

Can you walk us through your process for opening a project?

[drubinoff]

Can you walk us through your process for opening a project?

I just got off a long phone call with Microdesk. Together, we created a new Central File and then created new local files by opening the Central File while checking "create local file". We are all still having the same problem. The guy from from Microdesk said that everything each person is working on needs to be on its own workset. I said I don't see why we can't check out individual elements rather than the entire workset, and he said no, a user ends up checking out the entire workset and then the other people on the team need to ask permission for absolutely everything to do with said workset. So, apparently this mess of permissions is normal (?!). I am now putting all my interior walls on a new workset so I can keep working on this project while a team member works on the facade. I still don't think this could possibly be normal, no?

[CAtDiva]

I just got off a long phone call with Microdesk. Together, we created a new Central File and then created new local files by opening the Central File while checking "create local file". We are all still having the same problem. The guy from from Microdesk said that everything each person is working on needs to be on its own workset. I said I don't see why we can't check out individual elements rather than the entire workset, and he said no, a user ends up checking out the entire workset and then the other people on the team need to ask permission for absolutely everything to do with said workset. So, apparently this mess of permissions is normal (?!). I am now putting all my interior walls on a new workset so I can keep working on this project while a team member works on the facade. I still don't think this could possibly be normal, no?
No, it's not normal.

After you created the new Central File, but before you closed it (to open with a new local file), did you do a SWC & relinquish the "User Created Worksets"?

[david_peterson]

As they are the same reseller that we have, I'd like to know which person at Microdesk told you each person needs their own workset. Please send me a PM. Seriously.

Here's the process that I've used for years. Never failed. Again this assumes you're running on a legit server (You've already stated you are), you have good internal bandwidth, and you're not trying to run revit on an old P3 workstation.

I create my new project from a template (This assume you start all new projects from .rte file and not a .rvt file, but starting from a .rvt file would work in a similar method)
Activate worksets (If you have A360 installed, you'll have to save the project locally first, then you'll want to make sure you select the "Collaborate within your Network")
~Revit will push and pull everything into 2 worksets - Workset1 and Shared Levels and Grids~
Use the "Save As" option from the big "R" pulldown.
Check the options button and make sure the check box for "Make this a Central Model After save" is checked.
~I usually pick the compact file and Set the open workset default to "Specify" - This allows me to choose which worksets to load by default down the road if I need to trouble shoot something.
~I also set my thumbnail preview.
If it's checked Pick "ok" and save on your network drive.
Exit Revit.
Restart Revit
Use the big "R" pull down and select Open.
Navigate to the file on your Shared network drive.
Select the file and make both the Create New Local and Audit boxes are checked. (Follow this process every time you or anyone else opens - Never open a file directly)
If yes - Pick open.
(If you've chosen the "specify worksets' option a dialog box should show up asking which worksets you'd like to open, open all of them)
When the file opens, Pick the "Synchronize and Modify Settings Option"
When that dialog box open, put a check in every box that isn't grey out. (Do this every time you and anyone else in the model saves, and do that every 30 min)
Once you've done that, you should be all set.
If you need to add more workset, add them and make sure that you sync with modify setting and check every box that isn't grey-out.

Our typical worksets we use are
Z-Link-XXX (One for each revit link)
A-Interior
A-Exterior
A-Core
A-Datum

That's about it. This worked just fine with 23 people in one model Hard part was making sure everyone saved at the time they were supposed to.

Hope this helps.

[DaveP]

I agree with Cat and David.
Whoever told you that you need to check out entire Worksets is just flat out wrong and should not be telling people that.

Maybe I'm being too harsh. It's not that that information is wrong. It's just slightly out of date.
Beginning in, I believe Revit 8.1 (that's 8.1, not 2008 ), the "borrow entire Worksets" process became obsolete when Element Borrowing was enabled.
Revit 8.1 was released in 2005. So your reseller's advice is 11 years out of date.
Ever since then, as soon as you select an element and edit it, Revit should automatically borrow it for you. No extra "Make Element Editable" step necessary.

[david_peterson]

And with element borrowing came another issue.
When you select an element (even just to pick on it and check it's properties) Revit is doing lots on things.
At least here's what we found while using a sniffer a few years back.
First it checks to see if you have a valid license by checking your hard drive for standalones or pinging your license server.
Then it checks the central file to see if anyone owns that element.
then it checks the license file again
then it allows you to do something
If you want to move of change the object it checks for a license again, then the central file, then the license, then checks out the element, checks the license.....
There's a ton of network packets the get sent around.
Just some food for thought.

[dkoch]

Could be an issue with your network (or, it might not be), as Autodesk does not test/certify/support NAS or SAN devices (https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/autocad/troubleshooting/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/Autodesk-support-for-Network-Attached-Storage-NAS-and-Storage-Area-Networks-SAN.html). That does not mean it will not work, and I am certain plenty of people here will attest to using one or the other successfully.

One note: When you synchronize, the various relinquish after synchronizing toggles will be inactive [grayed out] if you do not currently have at least one of a given type borrowed. If you have nothing borrowed, all will be inactive.

[patricks]

Well I thought the issue might be the NAS drive, but apparently it's not. I tried saving a central file to our NAS backup drive (not normally done), but it still seemed to work fine. Are you accessing the NAS drive via UNC paths like \\NAS drive name\Folder? Revit tends to behave better when UNC paths are used for everything, instead of mapped drive letters.

We've never had such issues with Central files, but then we've always used an actual domain/file server with Active Directory, with all workstations accessing the server within Revit using \\server\share UNC path naming.

[krzystoff]

In our office, we run off a NAS, which can be a little laggy at times compared to a fully fledged server. We occasionally get central file issues, and it usually comes down to one of two things:

- 1. User Error (ie. trying to open central file directly / archived local file / working with local file after changing user name), or -
2. Network Performance Issues: we upgraded our NAS / router / switch all to Gigabit 10/1000, and cabling to Cat6 — now only older workstations still get network issues causing Sync/Save problems thanks to their vintage 10/100 network cards (really no excuse for using >4yo PCs for Revit :?).
There are a wealth of best practise tips here for avoiding the problem, but if you find you're still getting stuck a few fixes we find that help: A: Get all users to Sync and close Revit; Open the file with Detach and Audit, then Save As Central with a new name, close the file and open with Create New Local checked (if it's not checked something's very wrong) for each user.



B: With Revit closed, go to your
Revit User Files folder (in File Manager/Windows Explorer) and delete the subfolders, and files more than a few months old (Also clean the temporary folder %temp% using Windows DiskCleanup, and if you haven't done so already you should move your 'Default path for User Files' in Options from Documents to a local drive with ample space (SSDs are often fill up which can cause save issues). C. Whenever you reopen a project, always choose Append Date and create new local file.

[drubinoff]

Thanks everyone. We continue to have this issue with several projects, and yet not on other ones. I will try some of the suggestions above, but I do think the situation is puzzling and basically is not working well for us except on a couple of lucky projects.

[drubinoff]

"A: Get all users to Sync and close Revit; Open the file with Detach and Audit, then Save As Central with a new name, close the file and open with Create New Local checked (if it's not checked something's very wrong) for each user."

Sorry, this did not solve the problem. It now seems worse.

[drubinoff]

B: With Revit closed, go to your
Revit User Files folder (in File Manager/Windows Explorer) and delete the subfolders, and files more than a few months old (Also clean the temporary folder %temp% using Windows DiskCleanup, and if you haven't done so already you should move your 'Default path for User Files' in Options from Documents to a local drive with ample space (SSDs are often fill up which can cause save issues).[/I] C. Whenever you reopen a project, always choose Append Date and create new local file.

Thanks, tried all this, it did not work. We are still having the same problem.

[drubinoff]

Folks, we even tried putting the exterior walls on one workset and the interior walls on another. Matt made the exterior wall workset editable on his computer and I made the interior workset editable on my machine. We each made our respective worksets current. Guess what: still the same problem. We each have to give the other endless permissions.

This is not a tenable work set up and we are not getting the promised value of this very expensive software.

[drubinoff]

Also of note, when one of us grants a permission, the other person can't keep their workflow going until they go through the interrupting process of "reload latest".

[drubinoff]

A note of interest: I am unable to draw a wall without permission while working in a design option; however, if I work in the main model, I can draw the wall. Are design options related to the problem our team is having, perhaps?

[drubinoff]

OK, everyone: we switched our primary design option, accepted our primary design option, and now that we are rid of design options we are no longer having this problem.

So, is the lesson that teams cannot work on design options? This does not make logical sense from a user point of view: we ought to be able to use Revit in such a way.

[damon.sidel]

So, is the lesson that teams cannot work on design options?

No, we use design options on teams all the time, so I think there is still something going wrong, either an actual Revit technical problem or user error. Glad that you got things working to some extent. Keep at it!

[david_peterson]

Design option have their own unique workset, separate from the typicals. So you can only have one person work on a design option at a time.

[abrang70707157]

Hi all, I have two question that I hope to ask in a suitable topic.

1- I have a file that I created in Revit 2011 in another system, but I want to open it now with Revit 2017 but it doesn't synchronize it and it error that "This local file has been saved by user ... current is ... please change your user name or stop working on this file". :cry:
but I don't have that system that I created this file. How can I synchronize it ??? and editable it (I can't edit this file)???

2-And I have a 3d AutoCAD file that I want to open with Revit for material and render but when I want to explode it. Revit error say "Import Instance has 44535 elements. Imports with more than 10,000 elements cannot be exploded." Then how can I give material and rendering it ??? :cry:

sorry that I can't speak English good.

[david_peterson]

for your First question, open the file detached. then save as to create a new upgraded central file.

For your second question, the short answer is you can't do that. You could break it up in autocad before hand. What kind of file it is. With that number of objects, lines and faces, I'm assuming it's a large assembly with a ton of internal parts. You don't need any of the internal parts to render it. You if it's all true autocad solids you could also try to join all of them to eliminate all the extra stuff.
You could open it in inventor maybe and wrap it, then exchange it.
Or apply the material in Autocad and try that method. (I don't allow autocad in my revit model)
Faces in revit will only show material on one side. It would need to be a solid in order to apply material to both faces of the plane.
Just some quick thoughts.

[abrang70707157]

Hi all, I have two question that I hope to ask in a suitable topic.

1- I have a file that I created in Revit 2011 in another system, but I want to open it now with Revit 2017 but it doesn't synchronize it and it error that "This local file has been saved by user ... current is ... please change your user name or stop working on this file". :cry:
but I don't have that system that I created this file. How can I synchronize it ??? and editable it (I can't edit this file)???

2-And I have a 3d AutoCAD file that I want to open with Revit for material and render but when I want to explode it. Revit error say "Import Instance has 44535 elements. Imports with more than 10,000 elements cannot be exploded." Then how can I give material and rendering it ??? :cry:

sorry that I can't speak English good.

Hi my friends.
I understand my questions that it's better to write my solution for another person that maybe have those problems. and thanks to you david_peterson for your reply.
for the first problem I only, copy my project in another one. ;)
for the second that was a big project (It was a metro or subway station in four level-grounds), I only make each level to a mass. :)
*** I derive that it was very good for big projects to make them in Autocad and bring them in revit for rendering because I think that revit hanging with this big project.
Good Luck ;)