Revit Series 1 & other (?) offers

[shaugh1784]

I'll refrain from commenting on my reseller, suffice to say that I choose to come here for the real scoop... Having said that, does anybody have any insight on whether ADSK will again offer crossgrades for ADT people? For that matter - are there any current crossgrades/companion seat offers for Revit, from ADT?

I've been using ADT since R2, currently run 2004 and it's much improved - I mean I can make it do most of what I need from a design app - solutions (some hard some simple) for most any circumstance, yet I still yearn for something less fussy. I'm constantly fiddling with settings, and I'd rather not have to.

The grass must be greener somewhere, and the zoogdesign forum bunch just seems less hostile than the ADT camp...

Lastly, has anyone used ADT through 2004, and still glad they switched to Revit?

[aaronrumple]

Not only have I used ADT since it started, I had to tech it. First at as a director of an Architectural Program at the college level and then as a reseller.

It sucked. It still sucks.

I'm now back in full time practice. We have ADT 3.3 - it goes 100% unused. In the process of converting to Revit as the standard.

Revit makes me happy. ADT makes me sad.

[aaronrumple]

Tech = Teach

I aways thought spell check should be part of the OS....

[gregcashen]

The Revit Series has been announce and the upgrade price from ADT4 to Revit Series (Revit 6 + Autocad 2004 in one package) is about $500 or something, with a $795/year subscription. Good deal.

[aggockel50321]

I got the following from my reseller:


BOTH (1) Revit and (1) AutoCAD 2004 with Single serial number and
authorization code for use on one station.


Cross-grade cost from AutoCAD 2004, ADT 2004, Revit 5.1 $ 595.


I guess the old standalone licensing scheme will change, namely one license tied two two computer fingerprints.

[gregcashen]

That is the MSRP...work on them a bit.

[Wes Macaulay]

Revit makes me happy. ADT makes me sad.
What makes me laugh, Aaron, is that you've found your tongue with regards to ADT vs. Revit!

I sat thru Matt Dillon's class on schedules... powerful, yet how the heck am I going to teach THAT to our users back here? When hell freezes over, kids...

I've really enjoyed your comments on this topic!

[dredhead1832]

Having said that, does anybody have any insight on whether ADSK will again offer crossgrades for ADT people?

We just got 3 crossgrades about 4 weeks ago. ADT 2004 to Revit5.1. And for a LOT less than $595.


Lastly, has anyone used ADT through 2004, and still glad they switched to Revit?

Yes. :D

[Scott D Davis]

The Series is actually a great deal, because you will get subscriptions to AutoCAD 2004 (no ADT!) AND for Revit 6.0 for one price. I spoke with some people, and the pricing seems to vary, but essentially you will buy Revit 6.0, and get AutoCAD 2004 for between $200 to $500. You are getting $4,000 software (USD) for less than $500! This will be great for those that can't make the complete switch, because you get both, without paying full price for both. I'm sure resellers will work deals for those who have AutoCAD now, and want Revit, and for those who have Revit now, and want AutoCAD.

[Scott D Davis]

We just got 3 crossgrades about 4 weeks ago. ADT 2004 to Revit5.1. And for a LOT less than $595.


Crossgrades are great deals....but, you should call your reseller back and see if he will change your crossgrade from ADT to Revit to a Revit Series license. You will get both AutoCAD 2004 and Revit 6.0 for less than $595!
(and you wont have to strip ADT 4 out of AutoCAD :shock: )

[shaugh1784]

The Series is actually a great deal, because you will get subscriptions to AutoCAD 2004 (no ADT!) AND for Revit 6.0 for one price. I spoke with some people, and the pricing seems to vary, but essentially you will buy Revit 6.0, and get AutoCAD 2004 for between $200 to $500. You are getting $4,000 software (USD) for less than $500! This will be great for those that can't make the complete switch, because you get both, without paying full price for both. I'm sure resellers will work deals for those who have AutoCAD now, and want Revit, and for those who have Revit now, and want AutoCAD.

are these crossgrades available to license holders or subscribers only?

[Scott D Davis]

I think crossgrades are available to both subscribers and owners. Any resellers out there that can verify this for us?

[shaugh1784]

I think crossgrades are available to both subscribers and owners. Any resellers out there that can verify this for us?

Sure hope so. We didn't jump on Revit last year but waited to see ADT2004 first. Seen it, enjoy it just fine, still curious about the other side of the fence (even though my avatar says I'm a user already).

I'm hoping this R6 release in the series 1 offer gives us the chance once again. Last question (until the next one) :?: What's the subscription pricing moving forward on the series 1 plan - does ADSK hit double for the R2004 autocad + R6 revit - i.e. 2 separate subscriptions to pay each year?

Thanks to all.

[aaronrumple]

Just talk to the reseller. Or adsk. Adsk is doing more and more direct sales. If your firm is a respectable size adsk may be able to provide you a very cometitive deal including training and implementation.

One good size firm I think had use of a specialist for 20 days for $20,000 for both training and impelmentation. It basically got them therough thier first job - a good deal for a firm of that size. <...would have been $30,000 from the unmentioned reseller>

You can downgrade ADT to AutoCAD. Had a few firms do that!

[aggockel50321]

I still don't understand how the new Acad2004/Revit 6.0 license will work.

Under a standalone license, suppose I have Acad on on pc & Revit on another. Will we still use the fingerprint method of identifying machines that the current license uses?

Will the license still allow two fingerprints per contract? Or will I have to log into the subscription service & check out the license for each use of either product, no matter where it's (the software) installed?

[Cathy Hadley]

I haven't got it yet, and haven't played with it... All I can tell you is what they told us...

I don't quote costs, cuase I'm in tech not sales, but if you have a current ADT subscription switching it all over to the series is REALLY affordable, now if you don't have subscription, its still possible to do... and affordable, but just not AS much... then you in essence get two subscriptions... one of Revit and one for Acad... so you are in extension heaven...

As to the licensing... again without really testing its hard to be positive... so pleaze don't hold me to it.. my understanding is this..

Stand alone licensing will be based on the Comcast model used by Viz. This means that there will be a license utility on each machine. And checking in and out will be necessary, but NOTHING from Adsk that I've heard says anything about tieing the two together.. and we have had reassurances that they run concurrantly...

As to subscription renewalls? Who knows ... that is at least a year away... They are treating them as a seperate product... a Series subsciption ... at least for now.

CZH

[gregcashen]

My understanding is that with the Revit Series, you will only have one license/subscription for both 2004 and 6.0, but you will be able to use both at the same time on the same machine.

[studio3p]

Stand alone licensing will be based on the Comcast model used by Viz. This means that there will be a license utility on each machine.
As soon as someone lands a Revit Series license, it would be great to know if they have in fact moved to the Portable License strategy currently used with Viz4.

[Cathy Hadley]

Comcast is the license model for stand alone. We will all know soon enough .. thats what R6 will have as well... and what 5.1L has now.

[Melarch]

While attending AU I spoke with a number of Revit product development and marketing staff. The two questions plagueing my diminished brains capacity, both from age and overload sensory information after attending five sessions was:

Do you think they will revive the companion seat program for Revit? I said to them that the current fourth quarter dealer promotional pricing is very nice (see your dealer for the 4thQ promotional pricing and do not try this at home), but is there a chance that after this 4thQ promo pricing is over that it would be nice to offer the companion package again. I further said to the AEC national product manager that if I understood the wording and licensing involved with the campanion package, the user owned two Autodesk products ADT 2004 subscribed and Revit 5.1/5.1L/6.0 when released, each with their own distinct serial numbers and subscriptions. I added that this could allow me to take my ADT 2004 subscription copy and further transfer it over to Revit subscription for an additional $250.00. This being the current rate to transfer over a subscribed copy of ADT 2004. Thus for approximately $2,7500.00 not including state tax, dealers handling or shipping charges I could have two fully subscribed and licensed copies of Revit. True I already paid something for my ADT 3.3 seat, but a new seat of Revit cost approximately $4,000.00 SRP plus the annual subscription of $695.00, less any discount you can negotiate with your dealer (street pricing is about 20% less than SRP plus the subscription $695.00 - bigger discounts are negotiable depending on the number of transfer seats by dealers).

The AEC product manager responded with the following: I never thought about it that way, but I supposed you could be right.

Has anyone who has taken advantage of the companion package program tried tranfering their ADT 2004 subscribed seat to Revit? If so let us now your experience.

The second question I asked a number of Autodesk AEC product and marketing staff and raised in Mike Vaughn's session, "Get Updated on the New Autodesk Revit" was about the new Revit 5L, Series and soon to be released 6.0 licensing. The network versions of Revit will use FlexLM licensing and be compatible with every other Autodesk network version, already using the FlexLM licensing manager.

But I heard that the new Revit stand-alone licensing will have a safe cast (not sure of the exact name or spelling) protection method, which if I understand this license and protection scheme will require moving the license file from computer to computer in order to work between office and home. Currently you can install Revit on two computer systems and authorize both installs via the web. This is legal with most Audesk products with the only caveat (licensing restrictions) is that both computer installations cannot be used concurrently. The short is when you are at work using Revit or AutoCAD or ADT your home computer (if that is the second authorized install) can not have being used to run the same program simultaneously and visa-vie.

No one I spoke with would confirm what license manager or program protection device (hardware or software) was incorporated with the new stand-alone verions of the release.

Anyone out there familar with the licensing manager I mentioned or know what licensing or protection method is going to be incorporated with the new stand-alone version of Revit 6.0? Let us know waht you know and get a discussion up and runnning to express our opinions yae or nae.

[Steve_Stafford]

All of our Revit seats were obtained by trading our ADT seats for Revit. Depending on the current Autodesk Revit Series licensing, we may upgrade our ADT seats to ARseries. We don't technically need ADT but we do need AutoCAD for our work with some clients.

[Cathy Hadley]

I stand corrected... Safecast... Comcast (so close)... according to the Adesk word to resellers ... that is what is being included in the stand alone product, and that IS what is being used currently on Viz.

[aaronrumple]

The Viz Standalone licencing scheme is one of the world's worst. Out of 5 tries - the PLU only worked once. Each other time a long call to adsk was required. One customer never could get it to work properly.

[studio3p]

I've heard of other people having problems with it, but I have never encountered a problem. I am curious why and how others have had problems - perhaps something to do with copying and pasting the transfer codes rather than typing them.

[Steve_Stafford]

I've done a little research with my reseller...

AutoCAD and Revit are "tied" together as far as licensing goes. If you are using Revit, the AutoCAD license is consumed as well. So you can't use Revit while someone else uses AutoCAD and vice versa.

[gregcashen]

have you heard anything to contradict what I have been told re: being able to use autocad and revit at the same time on the same machine?

[Scott D Davis]

They are tied together? So if you were a one man firm, you'd close Revit, open AutoCAD, save, close AutoCAD, open Revit.....

I think if you were a bigger office on a license server, you could open one of your seats of Revit, and then one of your seats of AutoCAD, if one were available. To clarify: if you have 50 Revit Series in your office, you could have 25 seats of Revit, and 25 seats of AutoCAD in use at the same time. This means that 25 stations could be using both at the same time on the same machine. Or 48 stations of Revit and 2 ACAD could be running. (Or any combination to total 50).


If you get 50 Revit Series licenses, it's not 50 of each. Make sense? That's my take on it! Any resellers that can back that opinion and make it fact?

[gregcashen]

Yes, but my reseller explicitly told me that with one license of Revit Series I can run both the autocad 2004 and Revit software on one machine at the same time.

[Steve_Stafford]

They both use the same authorization license. So if I use Revit I am also consuming an AutoCAD seat when I have AR series. You can purchase a network seat of AR series but only one of them (Revit/AutoCAD) can be used at a time. AR Series is one license for two products....

A scenario...5 seats of AR Series, 5 Revit users going full steam, no Revit or AutoCAD licenses available...but if 3 Revit users are going, 2 seats of Revit or AutoCAD ARE available...

Make sense? Bottom line is you are not getting a "true" 2 for 1 deal because they can't be used at the same time for different purposes. True independant use requires the purchase of separate software.

[Steve_Stafford]

Greg, what you say is probably possible, consider that Revit can run more than one instance on your computer but only consume one license. So since AutoCAD and Revit are licensed via the same file, if you have Revit running, and launch AutoCAD it seems reasonable to assume that it would allow you to do so as long as it is the same PC.

I didn't ask about this scenario because we use Network seats, but I will...

[gregcashen]

I have spoken to Wei (sp?) and been directed to autodesk support and am on hold with Isaac, awaiting a response...

oop, i think I hear him coming back to the phone... :o

nope, still waiting... :cry:

:roll:

:puffy:

Alright...the word from Isaac is that you can have both autocad and revit open on the same computer at the same time for the reason that Steve described above.

woohoo.

back to work.

Ed: dammit, not above anymore cause it bumped me to a new sheet. see the previous page.

[Steve Cashman]

I got the following from my reseller:

Cross-grade cost from AutoCAD 2004, ADT 2004, Revit 5.1 $ 595.


I guess the old standalone licensing scheme will change, namely one license tied two two computer fingerprints.

Does that mean we'll be licensed to run each license of Revit on up to two (2) computers (i.e., computer at office & home)?

Thanks.

[Melarch]

As I understand it from speaking with Autodesk product management at aU and several dealers in my area, the licensing is merely a mangement agreement method and that essentially you own a copy of Revit and a copy of AutoCAD. Each can be run concurrently. Which if you think about the purpose of owning Revit and AutoCAD makes sense. Many instances require both products running at the same time, especially if you are linking DWG's in the RVT project file or if you want to import a DWG detail into a drafting view and need to make changes in the DWG prior to importing it.

None the less, according to information I have received, you can run both products concurrently, but licensing and copyright agreements restrict the use to not be used as separate seats being run by different CAD operators.

[aaronrumple]

If they use the Viz 4 schema for licensing then here's what you do:

You install the app on machine A. The license is here. You install the software on the other machine where you might want to load it. You need to plan ahead because if you are on the road and need to load it on your laptop - you are out of luck.

Machines B, C, D... get loaded with out a license or authorization. You then run the PUL to get a machine code from each of the systems. You then go to each machine and use the PUL to manually type in the machine code of each system - creating a "Pool". A system has to be part of the "Pool" for this to work.

Now you go to Machine A and export the license using the PLU to the target system. The exported license is good ONLY for the target system. You then put the code on a floppy. <Anyone have a floppy?> Go to the target system and import the license.

To get it back on system A - reverse the procedure. So don't forget to spend 15 min. on Monday futzing with this or you'll not have software when you get to work.

If at any point something goes wrong - you'll be without a license until Autodesk reauthorizes you with a new verrrry long number. One of my clients tried the export with Viz on a Friday evening so he could complete a deadline on Monday. The process failed. He wasn’t able to work at home or in the office and didn’t get a functioning system up and running until Wednesday of the following week.

[AbigayleAEC]

They are tied together? So if you were a one man firm, you'd close Revit, open AutoCAD, save, close AutoCAD, open Revit.....

I think if you were a bigger office on a license server, you could open one of your seats of Revit, and then one of your seats of AutoCAD, if one were available. To clarify: if you have 50 Revit Series in your office, you could have 25 seats of Revit, and 25 seats of AutoCAD in use at the same time. This means that 25 stations could be using both at the same time on the same machine. Or 48 stations of Revit and 2 ACAD could be running. (Or any combination to total 50).


If you get 50 Revit Series licenses, it's not 50 of each. Make sense? That's my take on it! Any resellers that can back that opinion and make it fact?

Scott, I think you have it right, but to confirm your belief and answer any remaining questions, let me explain the ARS licensing this way...

The best way to conceptualize ARS is to think of it as a pair of pants. One leg is Revit, the other leg is ACAD. You wear(use) it as a pair. When you consume Revit, you also consume ACAD.

Some real world examples would be:

Network licenses
Say your office has a 20-node network license of ARS. When Employee #1 needs to use Revit, he takes 1 license of Revit AND ACAD b/c they are consumed together. This means you cannot have 20 employees using Revit AND 20 employees using ACAD at the same time. Only 20 employees at a time can use Revit and/or ACAD.

Standalone licenses
With 20 ARS standalone licenses, you may only install ARS on 20 workstations. Each workstation has Revit AND ACAD. You cannot split up the bundle so that 20 workstations have Revit and 20 have ACAD. If that is your goal, ARS is not the solution for you.



*With an ARS license, you can have both Revit and ACAD open on your workstation at the same time.

*The nice thing about the ARS subscription is that it's only $100 more than just a Revit subscription. So for that $100, your ACAD software also gets free upgrades,extensions, online tutorials, and web based technical support

If anyone has additional questions about licensing, don't hesitate to ask me.

[Scott Hopkins]

Abigayle,

If you currently own a stand-alone Revit license, can you upgrade it to the ARS? And if you have the ARS and find that you are no longer using the AutoCAD portion of it can you downgrade it to a simple Revit stand-alone license?

[gregcashen]

I will speak for Abigayle, since I know the answer on this one...thanks to Abigayle (feel free to b!^(# slap me if I speak out of turn here, Abigayle ;) )...

Yes you can upgrade standalone Revit to ARS...I am doing it right now with our current seat of Revit to ARS. Basically, for about $500 plus the additional $100 per year subscription, I am upgrading the seat of Autocad on this machine from 2000i to 2004, which would normally be closer to $850. And actually, since I am crossgrading the Revit license, not the existing 2000i license, I can still retain that license and I will be getting a new Autocad/Revit license. So I am still up one autocad license, albeit 2000i, which I can still upgrad/crossgrade to another seat of Revit or Revit series later on and save some money.

Granted, we do a mix of work from arch to struct to civil to planning, so we need autocad. But for us, this revit series is a huge money saver and definitely helped me sell revit to the boss!

As far as the downgrade thing, well I don't think that is an option...I have never heard of autodesk paying anyone back for downgrading from, say, 2004 to LT. But I am pretty sure you can still crossgrade back to straight Revit from Revit Series....though why would you want to? You have already probably gotten the $600 of benefits from the autocad that comes with it...

[hand471037]

There are no downgrade options as far as I know. We were looking at trading in some AutoCAD 2000 licences for AutoCAD LT and it's not possible.

Also, we swapped several licences from stand-alone to network (a *much* better way to go, IMHO) for, like Greg says, $500 a pop.

[AbigayleAEC]

Abigayle,

If you currently own a stand-alone Revit license, can you upgrade it to the ARS? And if you have the ARS and find that you are no longer using the AutoCAD portion of it can you downgrade it to a simple Revit stand-alone license?

Yes, you can upgrade from Revit to ARS. Autodesk is not yet offering crossgrades from ARS to just Revit or ACAD, and they aren't saying if that will be available. But as Greg pointed out, who wouldn't get at least $100 value (the difference between Revit sub price and ARS sub price) for the use of AutoCAD during an entire year?

[Steve Cashman]

I just recently upgraded 6 Revit stand-alone licenses to Revit Series 1. So far, I like this setup. You can run both AutoCAD 2004 and Revit 6.0 at the same time and you can transfer the stand-alone license to another computer to run both on that computer. I do that on a daily basis to use them at home on my laptop at night and on weekends. The portable license transfer utility has worked flawlessly and we've started using Remote Desktop Sharing to allow a license to be retrieved if someone (like myself) forgot to make the transfer.

I told my VAR, Taylor Technologies, that I predict Revit Series 1 to be closely followed by ADT Series 1 (which will include a license for Revit along with ADT). That will make it much easier for the poor ADTers to make the inevitable move to Revit.

The only thing I negative I have to say about Revit Series is that when you go back to AutoCAD, it really hurts. It must be what Mac users felt when they say a DOS prompt or pre Windows 2000/XP. It is nice to have though to tweak consultant drawings, legacy drawings, etc.

[gregcashen]

I, too, am very happy with Revit Series 1