Compare and Contrast: Revit and ADT.

[worchesterdzgn]

Quick rant...can the revit supporters stay in their group and ADT in theirs. The post was about ADT and sorry but revit is not the answer to all question. Let the product, market and sales volume speak for itself. Otherwise, let the post stay on topic...Jeez. Ok done so following are our reasons for using ADT:

1. 3rd party applications - We are not programmers so we don't like or try to do our own customization. We prefer to leverage the multitude of 3rd party applications out there. AutoCAD has too many to list while ADT has less numbers it has more quality(IMHO). We adopted the VisionREZ application (customized for residential applications) and have not looked back since. Took us from a wanna be BIM firm to an actively producing BIM firm in very little time. We initially purchased just to get at the VREZ roof routine but have since incorporated the whole process.

2. Built on AutoCAD - No BIM / 3D program can fulfill all 3D requirements. At times you need to fall back on some 2D help. Since ADT is built on AutoCAD we can always fall back on 2D as a last resort.

3. User base and Training - Ability to access and leverage a VERY large AutoCAD/ADT trained user base. Especially important with new hires and the youngsters coming out of educational institutions. Also, relative ease of locating AutoCAD/ADT training centers. Also we consider ADT (and its associated 3rd party products) to be "extended learning" vs. "disruptive learning" solutions. In short, "extended" = expanding upon an existing training or learned base (AutoCAD / ADT) vs. "disruptive" = discontinuing 75% or more of prior learning processes in favor of having to learn an entirely new program or feature.

4. Construction Documentation - CD's are our "meal provider" and we felt that ADT offered us the best construction documentation features of any program on the market (esp. when partnered with the REZ app.). Con - we agree ADT is not as strong on design features as some other programs but that is not where our greatest cost or need existed.

5. Compatibility - while some discount this importance we felt it would be detrimental to leave the confines of the DWG file format. Granted other programs claim the ability to save to and / or convert to DWG files we did not see the need to go through all this effort when we were happy with our current process. We did not need to add more work or complicate the process as 90% of all our downstream users (subs, contractors, etc.) are accustomed to and use AutoCAD or ADT in some form or fashion. We did not have the luxury of adding work to our process (file conversions) to to expect our customers to change to a new platform.

[ita]

Not a single statement made regarding ADT that cannot be achieved, faster, easier and with greater ease in Revit.

After some 15 years of Acad and 10 months of ADT and 3 years of Revit - there is no comparisen to make. Revit wins over and over again. Try it some time, you might be surprised.

[worchesterdzgn]

Amazing how everytime someone ask about or posts something positive about ADT a revit supporter has to jump in and try to create a confusion cloud. Sorry guys but revit just is not all that great for everybody like you say. As mentioned many times before why don't you stay in your group and let the software do the talking for itself. And if it so great, so easy, so awesome then why is EVERYBODY not using it? Duh? Stay in your group and we stay in ours. Let the values of each program speak for themselves.

So many revit posts get so aggressive and defensive it almost seems like the users are paranoid and can't understand why the world is not bowing down to revit. Makes me question the software even more...............

Seriously though, please don't respond with a debate on the issue. Let the topic stay on topic. Jeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzz! It getting very old!

[J. Grouchy]

Seriously though, please don't respond with a debate on the issue. Let the topic stay on topic. Jeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzz! It getting very old!

Hehe...sounds like the kind of post that's just itchin' for a response...

[J. Grouchy]

...a cool new program or what might be the "future" does nothing for our bottom line.

Perhaps not now...but I'm sure there are countless examples where that attitude ended up burning the speaker.
But then, there's nothing wrong with just doing what you've always done, right? If it ain't broke, don't fix it...I should go back to ACAD 14 since it always worked just fine.

[baron_johnston]

Why are the revit supports so manic about people disagreeing with them? You think just because you are using a new program that makes you (or the program) the future? And do you really think that is always a good thing for what is happening today? Sure a missle defense system is the future and would be nice but is it necessary or even useful today?

Why do you have to keep trying to justify your purchase / use of a different program to everybody else? It makes no sense to me. The more I see and here it the less and less I believe any of it. This post never asked for anyboy's opinion on revit. But you feel you have to jump in and justify or talk down to people because they do not believe of see it the same as you.

Give it a rest. Just b/c you choose to use a new program / platform does not mean others are in the stone age. It just means you have a different opinion and leave it at that. But the constant banter is old and many others tolerance of it is wearing thin. You are doing more damage to your cause than progress. I used to have a fleeting interest in revit but at this time I have no interest in it if just for the user culture that seems to come with it. STAY ON THE POST TOPIC : I use ADT because....

[Steve_Stafford]

...Give it a rest...But the constant banter is old and many others tolerance of it is wearing thin...Understood


You are doing more damage to your cause than progress. I used to have a fleeting interest in revit but at this time I have no interest in it if just for the user culture that seems to come with it.That is unfortunate and it would be a shame to ignore Revit because of it. It's a fine product and I encourage you to not let avid fans affect your opinion of it.

The community growing up around Revit is passionate and excited about it. An excitement that many haven't felt about a software product in a long time or ever. That passion bubbles over from time to time.

Glad you are enjoying ADT and that it works for you and your firm, at the end of the day that's what matters.

[J. Grouchy]

Whoa!...They're just trying to keep it lively in here, since nobody else seems interested in contributing they're input as to why they use ADT. I haven't used ADT since r3 w/ ACAD 2000i, so I actually AM curious about what sort of advancement it's made since then. Our firm was one of the MANY that had it but never fully implemented it...and I've been wondering if the ratios have changed in the past few years.

And I see nothing wrong with jumping in with comparisons to other software...Revit or ArchiCAD or Microstation or whatever one chooses. It's interesting to see what others find useful or frustrating or promising or superior in ADT or other software.


The more I see and here it the less and less I believe any of it.

Honestly, that's a rather silly position to take. If I heard and saw great things about ADT or some other software package I might be intrigued enough to look into it or at least clamour for the same type of features in my own software. I don't resist change just because lots of people talk about it. The only time popularity or hype turns me off completely is in the entertainment industry...

[worchesterdzgn]

Popularity and excitement are Ok but incessant banter and over-hype is an annoyance. Nobody here has to prove anything to you about ADT. We are on it, use it and employ some very strong 3rd party apps. that make it a complete solution for our needs. IMHO, revit is a great design program (and I would get in in a heart beat if that is where I made most of my money) but I do so with cd's. ADT just wins hands down for our needs in that arena.

Even Autodesk recognizes it by offering the AutoCAD / revit bundle. Why do you think they say model it in revit then document it with AutoCAD? Now why would I do that? I have to learn revit and also learn / continue to train on AutoCAD. We love ADT because we can employ a very strong 3rd party app. for our specific needs, we did not have to learn an entirely new platform just add to our existing AutoCAD knowledge and if we have to use any 2D work it is right there for us. Makes no sense to learn to different programs / platforms to essentially achieve the same result as we already have in place.

Also, if you are trying to make a point by noting a lack of posts then here ya go: there is a limited number of post because very few ADT users come to the AUGI site. They primarily go to the Adesk Discussion Groups. And conversely not many revit users go to the Adesk Groups. More come here. So it is asking a question in a loaded community. The ADT group (in the Adesk site) easily has over 30,000 posts as opposed to a little over 1,000 revit posts. Does that mean revit is doing bad? No it just means there are not alot of revit users in that particular community. Does it mean that b/c there are less ADT posts in the AUGI group that ADT is doing bad? No just means that less ADT users come to this site. And I know I am not a rocket scientist to figure that out :)

It just appears many of the posts are like a fanatical religion trying to get new converts to their cause. Sure it is new, sure it is futuristic, sure there are some very exciting ideas but after some point the banter does become more annoying than interesting and the mass is desensitized to it and passes by without a thought. I think that is what some are trying to get across.

[J. Grouchy]

Why do you think they say model it in revit then document it with AutoCAD?

Who says that? To me it can be either/or...but there is no need for both.


It just appears many of the posts are like a fanatical religion trying to get new converts to their cause...and the mass is desensitized to it...

Now that's just silly. As I said, I'm just trying to see pros/cons of ADT, but end up reading what appear as OVERLY-sensitive reactions to a comparison.

I'm actually impressed when people can make ADT productive and fruitful...it means their firm devoted a lot of up-front time to learning the software, setting up standards and templates and whatever else it takes to run ADT. If you don't do that, you are just using plain vanilla AutoCAD and saying you use ADT is misleading. Since the Revit community is big here, it stands to reason they will be curious about developments in ADT and AutoCAD...and how they stack up to Revit. I think this is a terrific opportunity to compare notes and see what we both could gain from the other...but it ends up just being some weird reaction to even the mention of Revit. It's become comparable to the Mac vs. PC debate...and nobody ends up benefitting from such discussions.

[Steve_Stafford]

Even Autodesk recognizes it by offering the AutoCAD / revit bundle. Why do you think they say model it in revit then document it with AutoCAD? Now why would I do that?Sorry to continue... These statements are a good example of the misinformation and assumption that is spread by some on your side of the fence. This perpetuates the very thing you are annoyed about, the Revit community's reaction to this misinformation.

Revit doesn't need AutoCAD at all to do projects from start to finish. The Revit Series is a marketing device, that's all. Intended to put Revit in the hands of AutoCAD users for peanuts compared to buying each alone, so they can decide how to use it at their own pace, if at all. That's good bargain considering what both software apps can do.

Wasn't so long ago that Revit was an outsider competing with Autodesk. Therefore from the beginning it was designed to provide a way to interact with AutoCAD and Microstation data. This dependancy is only related to the reality that both applications and the data users create with them will be around for a long time to come.

Revit isn't just a design tool as you describe dismissively, it is a great documentation tool. You feel differently and that's your right. Can we agree to talk about facts instead of assumptions and misunderstanding? You'd find us a lot less inclined to stick our noses in if so...

I continue to be amazed that folks are willing to work so hard with their existing software (my opinion naturally).

[Steve_Bennett]

It's become comparable to the Mac vs. PC debate...and nobody ends up benefitting from such discussions. That is exactly what I don't want this to become. I have many good friends who are avid mac users & I used to be part of the mac camp & would just jump all over pc users. Then when I realized my work requires the use of pc's - I just accepted fate. Now when they bug me about using pc's & not mac's - I just let it roll off my shoulders since arguing won't accomplish anything. Everyone accomplishes something specific with each platform. I've come to a point where I realize we all like advanced computer stuff/power/abilities - it just happens to be on different platforms.

Same with the whole ADT/Revit thing. They each make certain camps happy & let certain people get their jobs done in a specific manner that makes them happy/more productive.

However - if adsk decides to come out with a mac version of any of its software for acad/adt/revit - I'll be all over it! :mrgreen: Same for Revit - most likely I will be all over it in a short while - especially when they come out with discipline specific platforms.

[worchesterdzgn]

"Who says that? To me it can be either/or...but there is no need for both."

Then why is Autodesk selling the AutoCAD / revit package for dirt cheap? Duh...to inflate revit sales numbers and it gives revit users a 2D fall back if they need it.

As usual the posts keep generating a smoke screen to deviate from the original topic at hand. THIS POST WAS ABOUT ADT... NOT A COMPARISON OF ADT AND REVIT! LOOK AT THE FIRST POST AND TELL US OTHERWISE.

"I'm actually impressed when people can make ADT productive and fruitful...it means their firm devoted a lot of up-front time to learning the software, setting up standards and templates and whatever else it takes to run ADT. If you don't do that, you are just using plain vanilla AutoCAD and saying you use ADT is misleading."

No you are not, you are being sarcastic. By utilizing the VisionREZ platform for ADT we devoted very little upfront time learning the software, very minor standards and template work and in fact are productive after about 4-6 completed models. So you are attempting to mislead this discussion as we are fully using BIM to is greatest potential. So, YES we are utilizing ADT / BIM. So quite being silly and thinking that revit is the only player out there that can make the BIM world happen.

"the Revit community is big here, it stands to reason they will be curious about developments in ADT and AutoCAD...and how they stack up to Revit. I think this is a terrific opportunity to compare notes and see what we both could gain from the other...but it ends up just being some weird reaction to even the mention of Revit"

The revit community is not curious. They just want to be argumentative for the sake of creating an argument. Why else are you posting to a topic that at no time asked for any comparative posts???? If the poster asked for a debate then so be it but they did not. STAY TO THE TOPIC...if not then it is annoyance. And you are correct that nobody benefits from this discussion as it was not a discussion of what it is trying to be twisted into! When asked for your input then bring it when not then don't.

[Steve_Stafford]

As usual the posts keep generating a smoke screen to deviate from the original topic at hand. THIS POST WAS ABOUT ADT... NOT A COMPARISON OF ADT AND REVIT! LOOK AT THE FIRST POST AND TELL US OTHERWISE.Writing for myself I only replied to off topic comments you made and wouldn't have said a thing here if you hadn't...no agenda on my part.

[J. Grouchy]

No you are not, you are being sarcastic. By utilizing the VisionREZ platform for ADT we devoted very little upfront time learning the software, very minor standards and template work and in fact are productive after about 4-6 completed models. So you are attempting to mislead this discussion as we are fully using BIM to is greatest potential. So, YES we are utilizing ADT / BIM. So quite being silly and thinking that revit is the only player out there that can make the BIM world happen.

Believe me, sarcasm was not intended...but again you are being incredibly hostile when it is absolutely unnecessary.

You missed a terrific opportunity to tell me about VisionREZ...because I know nothing about it. What does it do? How does it work with or for ADT? But instead of telling us about it you talk down to me and tell me essentially to 'shut up'. I don't really understand that. I'm not sure why you are trying to debate or argue when I repeatedly explained that I'm truly interested in hearing about ADT and its advantages. If I wasn't, I wouldn't come into this thread. But you've only hinted at things and haven't made your case.

Do you only want to 'preach to the converted'? I like thinking that those not using Revit want to know what we users think of it and voluntarily look into our discussions about it to find out the good and bad of it. So that is why I come in here, amond other forums touting other software. So maybe in your next post you can say good things, describe what it is about ADT or VisionREZ that you like, what makes your work better, what makes your clients happy and your life easier.

I've been attempting throughout to keep this discussion on topic but the other side seems only to want to berate the Revit users. This is your chance to make ADT and its users impress others...how do you think you are doing? All I can't tell from you now is how negative you seem to be...

[baron_johnston]

"Revit doesn't need AutoCAD at all to do projects from start to finish. The Revit Series is a marketing device, that's all. Intended to put Revit in the hands of AutoCAD users for peanuts compared to buying each alone, so they can decide how to use it at their own pace, if at all. That's good bargain considering what both software apps can do."

* Again, if it does not need AutoCAD then why does it have to ride its back for a sale?

"Revit isn't just a design tool as you describe dismissively, it is a great documentation tool. You feel differently and that's your right. Can we agree to talk about facts instead of assumptions and misunderstanding? You'd find us a lot less inclined to stick our noses in if so...

I continue to be amazed that folks are willing to work so hard with their existing software (my opinion naturally).[/QUOTE]"

* Hard? Who said I am working all that hard. I would be working twice as hard if I dismissed all my customers by turning to a new platform and had to learn an entirely new way of drafting. And yes we can agree to discuss facts. Here is a fact that is never discussed or is atleast dismissed in YOUR camp. Why can Autodesk not publicly release the "official" number of revit sales (not the give away seats)? When you can list that fact I will have much more respect for you sticking your nose into discussiosn you were not asked to be on in the first place. Your banter is disturbing and old. I assure you many others are weary and grow more turned off to revit just for the way their supporters choose to attack anything contrary to their ideas.

Talk in circles all you want but here is a fact: this original topic stated "I like ADT because..." That is a fact, so why are you here? :) Scared someone might not agree with you or even better that ADT might do just what someone needs without having to resort to a complete overhaul of their process? Scared that your investment might just not take off like had been hoped and you wind up with an Architectural Studio? In that case I guess I would be as patriotic about my cause as well.

[Steve_Bennett]

Alright - this is spun off from the "I use ADT becuase..." (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=16715) forum since it was getting way off topic. It seems there's a good discussion going. Lets keep it clean & professional & keep in mind these AUGI forum guidelines:

<snip>
To maintain a constructive, informative, and helpful environment for all AUGI Forums, AUGI reviews posts and may edit or remove those that don't adhere to the AUGI Forum Guidelines. Failure to adhere to these terms may terminate your ability to post topics, or reply to messages in the AUGI Forums.
</snip>

and...

<snip>
Do not mistake our Forums for your personal soap box. The forums are designed as a communication tool to assist our members in solving problems and becoming more productive in their use of Autodesk products.
</snip>

Thanks in advance

:beer::beer::beer:

[hand471037]

Talk in circles all you want but here is a fact: this original topic stated "I like ADT because..." That is a fact, so why are you here? :) Scared someone might not agree with you or even better that ADT might do just what someone needs without having to resort to a complete overhaul of their process? Scared that your investment might just not take off like had been hoped and you wind up with an Architectural Studio? In that case I guess I would be as patriotic about my cause as well.

I'm sorry, but you sound exactly like the fellow who posts and rants and raves under the name MAXARCH within the ADT Newsgroup as well... is that who you are?

[J. Grouchy]

It seems there's a good discussion going.

I tend to disagree...I showed a genuine interest in something I never truly got to explore or understand while we had it and they (though i suspect it is just one person in reality) contributed virtually nothing to the discussion. So I'm hoping that some others will join in and help me out here. I believe Jeffrey had some extensive experience with ADT, so I'm hoping he could lend some clarity...

[hand471037]

I believe Jeffrey had some extensive experience with ADT, so I'm hoping he could lend some clarity...

No, I haven't. I looked at ADT 2 for one firm I used to work at, and I looked at ADT 3.3 for another different firm, and in both cases decided it wasn't the way for those firms to go. I worked at a reseller that supported ADT, but I was the 'Revit Guy' and didn't work with ADT directly very much (and while there didn't really see a convincing reason to for most people). So I'm by no means someone with extensive experance, unless you count my experiences that lead me to NOT use ADT.

[Steve_Stafford]

Since Steve Bennet split the thread...I'll wade in again...


Again, if it does not need AutoCAD then why does it have to ride its back for a sale?Because it is the new kid on the block and mainstream markets (AutoCAD) are notoriously resistant and aggressive when new products unsettle the status quo. Autodesk intends to make some money with Revit. If you were working in Autodesk's sales department what would you do if assigned the task: Make Money with Revit?


Hard? Who said I am working all that hard.Actually I wasn't referring to you specifically. Since you have been stressing Revit's dependance on AutoCAD I was referring more generally to Architects who are using AutoCAD still.

I'm sorry I made you make you think I was insulting you or your choices. In fact you are in the same boat with me in that you have adopted a better way of working. Would you agree that someone using AutoCAD in its basic form without ADT and/or 3rd party apps is most likely working harder than us to get similar work done?


Talk in circles all you want but here is a fact: this original topic stated "I like ADT because..." That is a fact, so why are you here? :) Scared someone might not agree with you or even better that ADT might do just what someone needs without having to resort to a complete overhaul of their process? Scared that your investment might just not take off like had been hoped and you wind up with an Architectural Studio? In that case I guess I would be as patriotic about my cause as well.
I thought I stayed on point, off topic yes, but on point. My issue isn't with your choice of software in the slightest. I'm interested in clearing up misconceptions about Revit, a product I happen to enjoy, believe in and feel strongly about. That's all.

[kochcad]

WOW! My first time here and this group is like a WWF match! Read through these topics and posts and came to the conclusion that I better get back to the Autodesk Discussion Groups. I thought I disliked the control in there by moderators but it is just too unruley here for my liking. Punching, kicking, accusing, cursing! Boy oh Boy, Jerry Spring has made it to the CAD world!

Anyway, let me know if the cage fight gets on pay-per-view! I'm outta here.

[Steve_Stafford]

...WOW! My first time here and this group is like a WWF match!...I'm outta here...
[Black Knight mode on]

"Oh...I see! Running away?!?" "Come back here you coward"

[Black Knight mode off]

[Steve_Bennett]

[Black Knight mode on]

"Oh...I see! Running away?!?" "Come back here you coward"

[Black Knight mode off] [Black Knight mode on]

It's only a flesh wound!

[Black Knight mode off]

There are other threads to read - you don't have to read these ones... ;)

[J. Grouchy]

No, I haven't. I looked at ADT 2 for one firm I used to work at, and I looked at ADT 3.3 for another different firm, and in both cases decided it wasn't the way for those firms to go. I worked at a reseller that supported ADT, but I was the 'Revit Guy' and didn't work with ADT directly very much (and while there didn't really see a convincing reason to for most people). So I'm by no means someone with extensive experance, unless you count my experiences that lead me to NOT use ADT.

Ahh...sorry. I am either thinking of someone else or read into your past postings too deeply.

[Mike.Perry]

Hi Everyone

I kindly ask everyone to stop and take 5 for a moment....

During that 5 please go and remind yourself of AUGI Forum Guidelines (http://forums.solidvapor.net/faq.php?faq=vb_augi).

When done, please come back here and carry-on posting in a professional, polite and respectful manner to one and other (regardless of what side of the fence you sit on).

Thanks, Mike

Forum Moderator

[J. Grouchy]

I suppose I've been looking for answers that nobody seems willing to really give (though bmyers seems to bring the most clarity to the issue). All along I've only been asking honestly for perhaps a layperson's description of what each platform does best...and what the drawbacks to each are. I defend my postings still and don't think I was unprofessional...though I and others did seem to bring out the worst in some people. Maybe I'll go back to searching for comparative articles instead of asking people for straight answers. It's not worth it.