Detailing Questions (was>Greetings, I am new to Revit>>)

[terrysouthern]

Well I am sure there is something that can be done about this, but the lack of a parametric relationship between model and drafting elements (wall sections and section details). I cut the building and put some drafting features on it (the detail components, the edit cut profiles, the detail line etc.) but in each of those three levels of viewing all the drafting is not parametric. When I move something late in the design, all hell breaks loose; my edit cut profiles become purple, repeating details float in space, etc. Now I can create in place groups and link and edit them in each view, but that would only work on a small project and would greatly compromise performance and file size. There seem like a few good ways of dealing with this issue, (overlaying duplicated views, etc.) but nothing that retains the parametric quality of Revit. How can I maintain a coherence between different scaled views without reediting the drafting elements each time I edit model elements? I see something called "detail groups" Do I detail a wall section, save out a detail group and place it on other referenced views and hope everything turns out for the best? Not sure how those different group types work and how does one go about creating one of each type, I see "model, detail & attached detail" but no help topics on any of the above. The "model" one seems straight enough, but what are the other two and do they have a role to play in my "parametric detailing" solution? I can't find can't help topics on these "detail groups." I thank you in advance for any input helpful or otherwise...

[Scott D Davis]

Are you 'locking' your drafting elements to the model elements in detail views? If not, they wont change when the model changes. When you place a detail element, say a 2x4, align and 'lock' it to the underlying 3D model geometry, so if the model changes, your detail will update.

Others are placing a series of detail components on a detail view, then Grouping the set of components, and then they will align and lock that Group to the model.

Both seem to work for the cases you are talking about.

HTH!

[terrysouthern]

I am a little nervous about creating a whole bunch of relationships that may be unnecessary, the drawbacks are obvious. as a new user I want to get a better feel for the hidden trap doors before I start locking 2d stuff to 3d stuff. Because of levels I am nervous about deleting elements and having other elements disappearing with it without my direct knowledge or consent. Your statement that "your detail will update" seems to be better phrased "your detail will begin to update." Now I am not seeking perfection here but what I want is to identify a good game plan for having these three main view type maintain come form of manageable coherence (Building sections, wall sections and section details). I am looking to minimize the repetitive tasks involved in detailing a set of CDs without resorting to ADT and cad methods. Is there a feature in Revit that allows for parametric relationships of drafting elements between different views and or the model. I am just trying to get a better handle of the most effective methods here. So you are right this is a two part question; dealing with the relationship of 2d elements to the model and 2d elements between different views as you change scale up and down through a CD set. Does that make sense?




Are you 'locking' your drafting elements to the model elements in detail views? If not, they wont change when the model changes. When you place a detail element, say a 2x4, align and 'lock' it to the underlying 3D model geometry, so if the model changes, your detail will update.

Others are placing a series of detail components on a detail view, then Grouping the set of components, and then they will align and lock that Group to the model.

Both seem to work for the cases you are talking about.

HTH!

[aaronrumple]

Build as much into the wall as possible. Sweeps now can include detail information - look into that. You can build a wall with virtually everything but the notes inside. We don't as it is better for our building types to pick up the detail drafted over the section. Grouping works well. You can lock the group to wall/floor/roof etc and will only have minimal adjustment to do.

[mlgatzke]

My my Aaron, by the looks of your avatar you've gotten a haircut or something. There's definitely something different about you.;)

[terrysouthern]

Souds like a good idea Aaron, I wonder if anybody has pushed this idea to that extreme. If you would be willing to share this I would love to see how this was accomplished, how far you can push the detailing. I do notice the "metal decking" feature on the floors but I can load a profile to make it work. I searched the fourm and it looks like this is a something that will be expanded in future releases but not usable righ now. Beam system thing is workable, but something verticle alligned would be great for wall detailing.
Thanks for you help.

[rhys]

Are you 'locking' your drafting elements to the model elements in detail views? If not, they wont change when the model changes. When you place a detail element, say a 2x4, align and 'lock' it to the underlying 3D model geometry, so if the model changes, your detail will update.

Others are placing a series of detail components on a detail view, then Grouping the set of components, and then they will align and lock that Group to the model.

Both seem to work for the cases you are talking about.

HTH!
Scott
How do you deal with cut profiles can they be locked?

[luigi]

any 3d component and 2d lines can be locked to any other element (not just the model) and that is valid for sketches, which the edit cut profile is a sketch. One should use both locking elements on other elements and creating relationships with locked dimensions. My preferred is to have as much as possible in the model objects so that any view will be with the correct information without spending too much time in 2d....except for the obvious...

Yes, Aaron does look a little different, from a nect tie to his tongue sticking out.....

ps
On a serious note....congratulations Aaron

[sbrown]

There is a neat trick I learned. Since detail components can be added to a family, you can make a family(say a struct framing family) that is just a line in plan that you place the length of your wall and you lock it to your wall. In that family in section you add all your detail components, ie top and bot sill plates, Blocking, you could even import a full dwg wall section with notes if you want to, then anytime you cut a section thru the wall you will see everything in that family. Tremendously powerful. You can also set the diff detail components to display at diff. detail levels. I posted examples of this along with some others(I think it was Martin, not sure) when the functionality came out a couple years ago.

So all you are locking is a line and that line has all the detail components you need in it. I guess you could use a wall based generic model family and not even lock it. I'lll see if I can dig up the families and post them.

[terrysouthern]

If you could dig those up Mr. Brown I would be entirely grateful to you. Like I said I am trying to get my arms around this 2d/3d relationship and idetify some paths worthy of long term exploration. I hope to aviod extinction by spending a lot of time developing intricate items and families just to have it made useless by some new feature which accomplishes it better with no work. I do think the development team could develop some families which highlight these new functions and release those adjunct with its product releases, kind of a "new features" library rather than releasing the whole library and leaving it up to the user to track down new components and families that relate to new functions, that would be useful to new users as the 'release cycle" is a concept somewhat new to them. Well in any rate, getting nailed down a better relationship between 2d and 3d elements is something I want to investigate further. and I will let you people know what I come up with further down the road.


There is a neat trick I learned. Since detail components can be added to a family, you can make a family(say a struct framing family) that is just a line in plan that you place the length of your wall and you lock it to your wall. In that family in section you add all your detail components, ie top and bot sill plates, Blocking, you could even import a full dwg wall section with notes if you want to, then anytime you cut a section thru the wall you will see everything in that family. Tremendously powerful. You can also set the diff detail components to display at diff. detail levels. I posted examples of this along with some others(I think it was Martin, not sure) when the functionality came out a couple years ago.

So all you are locking is a line and that line has all the detail components you need in it. I guess you could use a wall based generic model family and not even lock it. I'lll see if I can dig up the families and post them.

[rhys]

There is a neat trick I learned. Since detail components can be added to a family, you can make a family(say a struct framing family) that is just a line in plan that you place the length of your wall and you lock it to your wall. In that family in section you add all your detail components, ie top and bot sill plates, Blocking, you could even import a full dwg wall section with notes if you want to, then anytime you cut a section thru the wall you will see everything in that family. Tremendously powerful. You can also set the diff detail components to display at diff. detail levels. I posted examples of this along with some others(I think it was Martin, not sure) when the functionality came out a couple years ago.

So all you are locking is a line and that line has all the detail components you need in it. I guess you could use a wall based generic model family and not even lock it. I'lll see if I can dig up the families and post them.
MArtin posted some example I seem to recall it would bee usefull to see how you constructed yours. The shame is that it is not posible to cut and paste a detail componet from a project detail into a family, nor to use a detail group. Each detail component must be loaded into the generic family. That said the improvements to grouping in v7 mean that detail groups are very powerful and when details repeat in sections just copying the detail works OK

[sbrown]

I'm still looking, as to getting the project stuff into the family, you can just export to dwg, import the dwg, then add your components over that. I started getting crazy with it and adding parameters for overhang, wall heights, etc. so typicall stud walls were very easy to modify for diff height walls.

[Martin P]

I used to do detailing as you do it - by laying things over and leaving section info on - it doesnt really work as you have found out, I avoid locking detail to model components. There is another good reason not to detail like this other than the problems you are getting - you cannot transfer details between projects - they are stuck in the file you do them in. The only solution is to trace the entire callout and add detail to that - this is not as bad as it sounds though!! Export the callout data you want do a DWG file - import it back to current view and explode it.... add any detail you wish to that - in view proprties you can set "display model" to do not display..... The details will not be parametric in realtion to the model, but you can add parametric detail components - and at least if you simply move a wall or something the detail wont fall to bits - also you can copy them between projects. There ought to be a way (this has been wished for) to convert a Revit view into Revit detail objects (ie "trace" the view into detail lines and filled regions) - try the wishlist with it its there somewhere....... We now have Revit series in my office - I now detail in Autocad, I simply prefer it for detail drawing and see no real advantage in doing it in one over the other. I suppose to detail in Revit has the slight advantage that the "background" is always there to see if you want to switch it back on. (I have also wished for a way to make a Revit view constantly update a DWG file, to get round this ie every time you save it exports a dwg of the choosen view)

http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=272&highlight=check

That is the thread that shows the trick scott was talking about, I havent taken it any further myself. I think is is now possible to add detail to a profile though I am not sure if that would really help as you dont want a 3D object just the detail - I gave up wishing for a better way to achieve what is in this post......