It's time for an ArchiCAD vs. Revit shootout

[Wes Macaulay]

OK - ya gun slingin' CAD jockeys... does anyone have any great ideas about how we could do an ArchiCAD and Revit show? - something we could do live and also post somewhere so that people could have a real good hard look at both programs?

We'd have to decide on an agenda - what has to be covered - and provide some sort of live questioning procedure (like Placeware does). I would also like to see the presenters be able to ask questions and provide rebuttals in an orderly fashion, almost like a live debate but with minimal rancor!

I spent probably 90 minutes with Woody Schremp, an ArchiCAD reseller from the east coast of the USA. We had a great time, and I got to see what had changed since AC6.5. It was open, and fun.

So what do you all think? Is it worth the effort? How might we pull this off? Our company would be happy to offer whatever resources are needed; we have a fiber-optic connection to the net (Canadians have the highest amount of bandwidth available per capita in the world... if you don't include the sled dogs)... we could potentially get a local ArchiCAD user in to do the demo here.

ArchiCAD is the only alternative to Revit conceptually, and since this thread is pretty big here and at Architalk I think it could be instructive.

[muttlieb]

I love the idea. As the person that got this discussion kick started again, it would be very helpful to me. The company I work for will be purchasing AC or Revit based on my recommendation. I work for a very small residential design/build firm. I am the 'design' part of the firm. So for me, it would be very helpful to see a demo of a small scale single-family residence taken through all major stages of design, development, and CD's. I'm not sure how feasable it is or how in-depth one can get in a demo like this when time is a factor. But sticking with a small scale project ought to help. At least the major points could be covered and the differences between the two programs illustrated.

[gnl]

I'm in for it.
I know both pretty well, currently work on Revit but have all my friends using AC. No problem to provide info or tests.

[hand471037]

Part of this 'shootout' should be a small project. Like, a dead-run, where both people have to produce a set of CD's of the same house. It *must* include custom content creation too. Maybe we do a triathlon, one event is creating as-builts of a house from a set of old R14 DWG's, then one is producing a small house remodel set from that model, one is producing renderings and presentation graphics from that house set...

I donno...

[Djordje]

OK - ya gun slingin' CAD jockeys... does anyone have any great ideas about how we could do an ArchiCAD and Revit show? - something we could do live and also post somewhere so that people could have a real good hard look at both programs?

Good idea!

Something like this, on a much larger scale, was being done earlier - see http://www.architecturalcadd.com/cup.htm, organized by Geoffrey Moore Langdon. It is still alive, the topic for the last one on Novemebr 19th was a Ronald McDonald playground. The idea and the tasks that the teams had to fulfill are a good outline.

I posted the link to this thread on the ArchiCAD Talk, so feel free to discuss the idea there too:

http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=947

[gregcashen]

I think it would have to include a newbie as well...to contrast the learning curves for both products.

[stefkeb]

Is it possible to describe a main layout/plan of work to follow, so users of different applications can follow along?

It might be cool to see not only Revit or ArchiCAD but ADT, Allplan, Triforma and some others as well.

I suggest that you find some "neutral" playground and that the basic setup is discussed up front, or you risk that it will be targeted to a common use that might not apply to others.

Questions I would like to see answered in such a comparison are:
[list:d2cee755e2]How do you approach renovations?[/list:u:d2cee755e2]
[list:d2cee755e2]How do you handle existing files that are possibly not in the native format for your application?[/list:u:d2cee755e2]
[list:d2cee755e2]How do you send out the plans & sections to a consultant?[/list:u:d2cee755e2]
[list:d2cee755e2]How do you approach a serious model-adjustment? What steps to take?[/list:u:d2cee755e2]
[list:d2cee755e2]How do you define a custom door/window and some custom objects?(e.g. what is the real conceptual difference between a Revit Family, an ArchiCAD GDL-library object, an ADT Multiview-block, ...)[/list:u:d2cee755e2]
[list:d2cee755e2]How do you exchange a BIM model between applications? Is it possible at all? At what cost? What do you lose? IFC? Other formats?[/list:u:d2cee755e2]

I'm interested in following this comparison, but I hope it will be done in a serious way and not meant to bash eachother. I think both Revit & ArchiCAD and other BIM-software users can benefit from working better together.

[hand471037]

Biggest problem is keeping it objective. Because even when such things are done by independant people, others will still cry foul; anyone remember the 'CAD of Principals' Fiasco from a few years ago, where Revit, the new kid on the block (then in version 2 or 3), won out on several areas over the five other platforms (which included ADT, AC, AllPlan, et all), and the vendors/users of those platforms cried foul because Revit helped fund the independant study (even though so did the other software companies, but that seemed to be convently forgotten...).

Let's get a computer or CAD maginzine into this, find people who are computer savvy, and each give one a different software package (that they have never touched before) and the same house remodel job. Give them all a month, come back, and see what they have been able to do in that month...

Now that would be a great thing to see!

[beegee]

As Djordie mentioned in other thread, Professor Geoffrey Moore Langdon is the established guru in this field.

He's been running the " CAD Shoot-Out" LINK (www.architecturalcadd.com/cup.htm), for many years and publishes a subscription only review comparison of all CAD systems to assist firms wanting to assess programmes.

If you started with his set-up and ground rules, that would be a good launching pad.

[spSmith]

Here's another name worth consideration: Lachmi Khemlani. I met her recently at the AIA TAP conference and she seems to have a good understanding of what BIM is about.

She has written reviews of all of the major software packages for the big magazines and since she is now independant (she just started her own newsletter) you would think that objectivity is in her best interest. This is About Her (http://www.aecbytes.com/about.htm) and these are her Current (http://www.aecbytes.com/features.htm) and Past (http://www.aecbytes.com/links.htm) articles

Shaun

PS: I am one of those newbies who would love to see some objective, non-marketing pros & cons of each package out there!

[Henry D]

Anyone remember Arris? A couple of years back when I was researching 3D CAD software, I use to check out the results of the shoot-outs Geoffrey Langdon organized. Arris kept winning the shoot-outs so I ordered the Arris software for a several month trial. I didn't like it at all. I figured that the reason it was winning was the team and not the software. In fact, as the years have gone by Arris has been left in the dust by other 3D CAD software - I never even hear about it anymore.

My point is that these shoot-outs can be more about the teams than the software and can be deceptive as to which is the better CAD software. I think a more accurate measure would be a series of comparative tests on common tasks set up by an independant entity- similar to the way they compare computer hardware or the way Consumer Reports compares autos. There probably isn't the market to make this viable, but I do think it would be the most accurate evaluation method.

[boten1851]

Henry D!

You pulled the word´s out of my mouth.

Revit/Archicad is just tools that transfer what´s already in your head.
Then there is an annoing prosess of documenting these manifests.

Revit/Archicad is different "opposites" in their own little kingdoms, that is gaining more power day by day.

[Melarch]

Maybe this shootout should be comprised of a panel of CAD-BIM recongnized authorities. An independent group like the interoperability people should be involved to diffuse the CAD software groups bias or labeling the shootout less than impartial.

This doesn't mean the major CAD-BIM software companies couldn't contribute to stage this event.

[Djordje]

Maybe this shootout should be comprised of a panel of CAD-BIM recongnized authorities. An independent group like the interoperability people should be involved to diffuse the CAD software groups bias or labeling the shootout less than impartial.

This doesn't mean the major CAD-BIM software companies couldn't contribute to stage this event.

They definitely should. What is maybe telling, is that the last few shootouts by Prof. GML were mostly NOT endorsed by the vendors. The users volunteered and made or broke the good name of the software.

I would go even one step further, and say that the CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY should sponsor the event! Bottom line is - the eventual win of BIM, that I hope to see in my lifetime, is going to benefit the construction industry the most.

[Wes Macaulay]

One thing I would defintely do to level the playing field would be to have all the teams model the VERY SAME design - and that design would not be revealed until the event. Langdon's events all had milestones or key features that each design had to incorporate, but the design was open to each team, a major shortcoming. What if the design uses curves, and one platform doesn't do it very well? In the Architectural CADD Cup shootouts, the users could just do whatever they wanted to make their software look good.

I think the event should contain the folllowing:

- development of a design unknown to all the teams as mentioned above
- the design should include a variety of geometries so people can see how the programs handle them all
- an examination of how the software progresses from earlier design stages to documentation
- how details and schedules are developed by the software
- how the integrated renderer works (if there is one, or how it works with an external renderer)
- the extensibility of the software to other uses besides visualisation and CD's (LEED, QS, etc.)
- how the software handles design changes

The idea would be to give everyone - from techs to principals - a clue as to how hard these programs are to use, and how effectively they can handle the realities of the architectural environment.

I like the idea of the construction industry being involved. They have much to gain from the development of building informaiton modelling.

I have thought about the fact that "crack" users of any software could possibly make up for the weaknesses of the software they're using. (E.g., it's conceivable that a LISP god could make AutoCAD compete with Revit. <stifled laughter> OK, not). It would be useful to have some sort of jury to spot and note any tweaking that teams are doing to their software so that it's noted for the audience' benefit. Neither Revit nor ArchiCAD offer much in the way of programming extras in that wouldn't be available to other users, so there's a level playing field between them in this regard.

Frankly, while I said Revit vs. ArchiCAD at the top of the thread I'm going to suggest that we include ADT and Vectorworks as well. Vectorworks is being confused with the heavy hitters and I think an event like this will show that you get what you pay for. ADT is to be included as a usability nightmare for reference, (but maybe they can fix this by ADT 2005.... <more stifled laughter>).

This whole thing is a great idea, and would be a great service to the practice of architecture. I'm stunned with how few people in our area are familiar with how most CAD programs (other than the ones their office uses) work. That's just plain stupid. Having spent more time than I'd like to think about sitting in front of a computer drawing buildings - along with a whole office of others doing similar tasks - if you haven't done your CAD homework, you're throwing money out the window. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the windmill I tilt at more than almost any other.

I wouldn't this thing to be such a big deal that it would take a year to plan it. I'm going to go after local users in our area and see what I can dig up, and I am certainly going to keep it objective.

Stay tuned.

[stefkeb]

I don't think letting novice users do the shootout would be good. You have to rely on people that know how to handle their software efficiently.

On a CAD-shootout we held in the past in Belgium, one of the winners for several years was Arkey. Although it is a capable drawing application, it is not a BIM-software. The user that took the lead in their team was very good at providing workable solutions in a short time.

What if the outcome of such a shootout would be that a non-BIM tool costing much less is capable of producing very usable results "on site"?

I mean that generic CAD-tools like AutoCAD & VectorWorks might not suit the purpose of the comparison much, but a lot of people seem to be able to run their architectural business on it just fine and the contractor on site doesn't care a bit how they produced the "lines on paper" he uses to construct the building.

It should be a task-oriented comparison and not a feature-oriented one.

About the rendering: if a certain application would have a usable (but not outstanding) internal rendering engine, could it compete with another tool that doesn't render at all but they use a seperate dedicated rendering software? Or would you allow a Revit user to use 3ds max to render even though Accurender is included?

Does the price of the software matter? Would you compare performance to the cost of the application(s)?

Does the time-to-learn or the time-I-have-allready-used-it influence it's rating?

Will you ever find someone not biased (based on your own postings where you "laughed" at AutoCAD)? I don't say you can't laugh, but it makes every statement you make about anything that is not Revit look suspicious, even if you try to make a honest and correct statement in the first place.

A lot of questions... Looking forward to see how this turns out, but I'm suspicious that anyone can even do this fully independent.

[gregcashen]

I think the reason for the laughter is because this is a showdown of BIM tools and the thought that autocad can compete as a BIM tool is quite laughable. But, hey, if anyone wants to try to compete with Autocad and create a 3D model, go ahead. I disagree that 2D line drawings would be acceptable here. The whole point is BIM. Otherwise, we should have a hand drafter in there too...but that gets away from the point of this thing. Let's try to focus.

i think there definitely needs to be a newbie on board. Otherwise, as we have said, it is a competition between users, not platforms/products. Also, I think it should be a small, complex project that may or may not be able to be completed in 48 hours. Short-track it to see where the time is really spent. It will be interesting to see what things may be possible but simply take too much time to complete. Also, there needs to be some sort of sponsor to give or loan us 2 identical machines. the hardware should be the same so it is not a factor. Finally, I think the program should involve a last minute change order. And the final output should be the 3D model and a set of printed drawings. Drawings should be judged not just on completeness, but quality of the aesthetics.

Sound ambitious? good.

[spSmith]

I don't think letting novice users do the shootout would be good.

...from the perspective of a BIM newbie: To my firm, the value of this wouldn't be "which is better?" it would be "which can do what?" And that includes how easy/intuitive each application is. I think the "better" part is an individual users judgement. Each program has it's own strengths and weaknesses and I want to look at the merits of each and how they suit our design process and skill sets.

I would like to see a series of "vignettes" each targeting a different project type or point in the design process and a different skill level. This is not to say that there couldn't be an overall comprehensive event but perhaps the "vignettes" could be an opportunity for the public-at-large to participate.

"Vignettes" may also be a good oopportunity for expert users of one program to wet their feet with the other.

Just thinking out loud...
Shaun

[Wes Macaulay]

Those are good points, Greg - it should really be about the software - not the users!

I will certainly try to put $numbers to everything since architects don't get much money (particularly here in Canada where costs of construction are lower than in the US, so the fees are lower, too), and spending thousands of dollars on software has to shown to be worthwhile.

[Djordje]

Those are good points, Greg - it should really be about the software - not the users!

True. But tell me - how are you going to make the software do the job?

The truth is - it is the PEOPLE that do things USING the software. Therefore, it is rather impossible to say that a software "can't do it". It is a question of the user. If the user knows how, it can, and vice versa.


I will certainly try to put $numbers to everything since architects don't get much money (particularly here in Canada where costs of construction are lower than in the US, so the fees are lower, too), and spending thousands of dollars on software has to shown to be worthwhile.

ROI is another matter ... some other things come into play here, like the method of licensing, the method of buying, the upgrade possibility. The upfront cost is rather irrelevant compared to the impact a software has on your practice. Here, the VERY important point is live, on-site or geographically near training/support. You have to be taken by hand throught the first steps, otherwise you will either try to apply the existing knowledge to the new concept, OR blunder around in the dark and maybe hit a nugget or two. I have seen both in action with ArchiCAD, and it HURTS to see how much people do NOT know.

Greg's idea of newbies is therefore as good as it is bad - why bad? because a newbie to ArchiCAD/Revit will either try to apply his previous CAD skills, which is usually counterproductive, or try to apply the manual methods, which also can be dangerous.

Hmm ... more than one topic here?

[mrcamper]

OK - ya gun slingin' CAD jockeys... does anyone have any great ideas about how we could do an ArchiCAD and Revit show? - something we could do live and also post somewhere so that people could have a real good hard look at both programs?........

Being the CAD dinosaur, as I am, and having been around for the last 17 years, the A/E/C Systems shows have held CAD application shootouts several times. You might look to the organizers of this show to see about having a Revit/Archicad shootout.

It would be my guess that AC would come out ahead in a shootout just due to the fact they have a 20+ years of experience in their user base compared to much less time and experience in Revit. But it would definately be interesting to see. What it all boils down to is no hype, just l33t skillz.

For info on the 2004 show in February, check out: http://www.aecsystems.com/content/overview.asp or http://www.aecsystems.com/content/index2.asp

Contact the A/E/C organizers and they will possibly make your wish come true. See ya'll at A/E/C Systems 2004!

[PeterJ]

l33t skillz.???

[gregcashen]

"elite skills"

...hacker talk :wink:

[PeterJ]

Clearly I'm just not down like you Greg. Have you opened up Revit for us yet?

[mrcamper]

- hehe -

l33t = leet = elite = hacker terminology = leet speak = nerd



|'|4n 4R3 Y0|_| 5Q|_|4R3.

( You can translate the above phrase at: http://developer.mechanicmatt.com/Leet.php )

-just kidding, my little kiddo is 18 now and I get all my l33t skillz from him.

[hand471037]

Actually, at least in the circles out here in the Bay Area,

leet-speak = wanna-be.

All the real hackers I've met out here, and my old friend who's a Unix god, see leet speak as a joke, and only use it to mock each other and/or make jokes... It's still a ton of fun however... :)

Have you seen Google's leet-translator?
http://www.google.com/intl/xx-hacker/

:roll:

[JamesVan]

:twisted: 1 4|'| 7|-|3 |31|'|-|'|4573R :twisted:

[Steve_Stafford]

I'm going to stick out my neck and say it like I feel it...I don't care at all about a shootout. I'm not about to divert from my present course.

If Archicad is great, I'm sure it is in many ways...so is Revit. Besides from the wide ranging opinions on how to actually do a shootout, it doesn't look like the result would succeed in providing value to the "debate". It would get "value-engineered" and "failings" explained away...like other such endeavors.

Each firm has to evaluate the tool on it's merit and how it will fit culture and process/practice. More importantly it has to WANT to.... No shootout will resolve or eliminate that necessary process. Might put a bullet in the chamber but won't fire...

Not that my comments should deter anyone from actually doing a shootout. But for me, no thanks, I'm quite satisfied.

"Placing head firmly in the sand" :D

Also, the idea is a real "non-starter", not a single reply on the Archicad forum to a query about it...

[beegee]

I'm going to stick out my neck and say it like I feel it...I don't care at all about a shootout. I'm not about to divert from my present course.

If Archicad is great, I'm sure it is in many ways...so is Revit. Besides from the wide ranging opinions on how to actually do a shootout, it doesn't look like the result would succeed in providing value to the "debate". It would get "value-engineered" and "failings" explained away...like other such endeavors.

Each firm has to evaluate the tool on it's merit and how it will fit culture and process/practice. More importantly it has to WANT to.... No shootout will resolve or eliminate that necessary process. Might put a bullet in the chamber but won't fire...

Not that my comments should deter anyone from actually doing a shootout. But for me, no thanks, I'm quite satisfied.

"Placing head firmly in the sand" :D

A Daniel come to judgement.
Oh wise young judge, how I do honour thee!

[boten1851]

Life is strange!
After all my efforts, I´m offered a second shot at Inventor.

Still I´m gonna try to figure out the Revit-demo on personal-basis.

Regards Balle.

[MartyC]

I'm going to stick out my neck and say it like I feel it...I don't care at all about a shootout. I'm not about to divert from my present course.



I agree Steve, quite honestly whats the point?

Those who have chosen Revit are those that took the time, did the demo and 'got it'. This 'mine is bigger than yours' thing is a bit silly really. AC can do good job in the right hands, Revit does a spectacular job in my hands, and no doubt in the hands of those that are passionate about it in this forum.

I find it odd that there a couple of lurkers that seem to be seeking some form of divine truth before making a decision on their chosen platform. Sheesh, email ADesk and get a free copy, do the bloody demo in less than the time it takes to initiate a discussion on comparisons, and make your mind up. Pretty simple really, do your own shootout!

I for one am having too much fun with Revit, and enjoying my enhanced profitability to goof off second guessing or justifying choices. Devils advocates are time wasters.

'Hiding back inside my soap box' :shock:

[PeterJ]

Revit does a spectacular job in my hands

Yours must be bigger than mine

[MartyC]

Dunno about bigger, but I'm still amazed at the tricks it can do :shock:

M

[gregcashen]

I don't know about yours, but as of yesterday, mine is 6.0!

[boten1851]

Very happy with the new dimentions.
Is there a global switch to turn them on constantly?

Revit is getting closer:)

[Wes Macaulay]

Marty and Steve... why go to the trouble, you ask?

I'm a comparison shopper. I like to sit down with a pad of paper and really work out what's best when making a major purchase.

I am appalled at how little effort architects make into choosing their CAD tools. I want a venue where architects can get a wake up call to make then realise that they're missing the boat, and that it's time to start thinking about a smarter means of documenting their buildings.

It's possible that some people will still refuse Revit: they'll carry on using whatever they're using. Some firms don't want to even hear the idea of something besides AutoCAD - we've had people be openly hostile to us.

At the end of the day I want to make sure everyone knows what Revit can do, and a little about how it does it. I want to educate my peers in this regard, because I don't think it gets nearly enough thought.

[Steve_Stafford]

Grumble grumble grumble...that was evil negative Steve talking...I don't let him out much but I wasn't looking and he snuck past me!! :D

By all means do the shootout Wes, if it helps the cause, then great! I am feeling overwhelmingly ambivalent about it that's all.

As a reseller, you've naturally got a different angle than me...but me, I'm camped out already and I'm not budging from my spot with the lake view and the good fishing hole....no way...sorry no shootout result is moving me mister!

Naturally I'll be curious to see just how badly "A" gets beat by the home team! Go WES, go WES...

For those folks with a mild or weak sense of humor or those who are paranoid, this post was meant to annoy you! :twisted: yours truly, Evil Steve

[Wes Macaulay]

Dear Evil Steve...

I have ALWAYS wanted to do this - it is not really motivated by the fact that I work for a reseller. It's motivated more by morbid curiosity and the desire to upset the local apple cart. I have been pursuing this for years - trying all the apps: BricsCAD, Architech PC, BOA, Arris, DataCAD, Softplan, Chief Architect, ye olde AutoArchitect... all to get a feel for what they did and see if any of them caught my eye.

This whole thing has been a pursuit since oh, 1997. So there I was, drawing away, coordinating drawings in AutoCAD, and it hit me like a thunderbolt: what the heck am I doing? I'm doing something the COMPUTER should be doing. The rest is history... I've changed horses a few times, too. First it was MiniCAD/Vectorworks, then ArchiCAD, then Triforma, then Revit.

So if a new program comes out that looks like a worthy condender, I will certainly try it. (Even if Microsoft made it!) You have to keep your mind open. Even more than I want people to buy Revit, I want people to THINK. And the dialogue will be fun. I may work for a reseller, but I think like a user. I've only been doing this for nine months, so I'm still fresh and only partially brainwashed... I HOPE!

The cool thing about this job (for me) is that I can pursue this idea on an official basis - it's the perfect soapbox opportunity. I do want to get back into the trenches, but want to make the most of my current vocation by getting the word out to the local architectural community. I'm going to make as much noise as I can! :twisted:

Admit it Wes...you're exagerating, I met you, you were like 4 years old in 1997...okay maybe 14 ES

[Wes Macaulay]

I can't believe I have to do this... I'm coming up to my 34th year already. And since I don't want any of you assuming my identity I'm leaving out the important bits. Please note the red arrow...


http://www.pat.ca/dl.jpg

[Steve_Stafford]

assuming my identity I'm leaving out the important bits.

The one, the only!

[Paul P.]

You ever heard the saying that everyone has got a double somewhere in the world. Well Wes you have any uncanny likeness to my boss. I will try and post a picture at some point. :shock:

[gregcashen]

Unfortunately, Wes doesn't even resemble Wes!! Having met him at AU, I can honestly say that Steve was correct in his initial impression that Wes looks much younger than that picture above makes him look. I would not have recognized that as being you, Wes.

G

[Djordje]

So if a new program comes out that looks like a worthy condender, I will certainly try it. (Even if Microsoft made it!) You have to keep your mind open. Even more than I want people to buy Revit, I want people to THINK. And the dialogue will be fun. I may work for a reseller, but I think like a user. I've only been doing this for nine months, so I'm still fresh and only partially brainwashed... I HOPE!

Hmmm ... the brainwashing is the dangerous part! :) Be frank - when your paycheck comes in, you are more concerned with the sales, right? ;)

Let's get the discussion back on the track, shall we?

It is good that we can all try the new Revit, as one should NOT be brainwashed and one SHOULD look over the fence for "how do they do that". As one poster at ArchiCAD Talk said, there was a lot of Mac/PC bashing, but neither would be around if it were not for both of them existing in the same market!

So, some ArchiCAD info - the newest patch for 8.1 is available at http://www.graphisoft.com/support/archicad/downloads/component_updates/, and for those who are really into the BIM comparisons, take a look at the movies and presentations at http://www.graphisoft.com/products/archicad/upgrade81/

Diving for cover now ... ;)

Wes, why not make a BIM shootout? Triforma is stating that they also have the tools? Have not properly seen it since the BRICS days (QUITE a while ago), have not seen it anywhere in comparisons recently, but they are definitely out there.

An interesting charette would be cross software tryout - take one team of each, give them one day training on the competitior, see what they can do after that. Maybe this is recycling of Greg's newbie idea, but at least in this case you know that you have people who are CAD and BIM literates, and therefore the CONCEPT at least should not be a problem.

Hm?

Djordje

[Wes Macaulay]

Honestly, Djordje... I don't care. If I get laid off tomorrow, I'm going to any one of the Revit firms in town and yell 'let's get busy!'

I like the idea of having users switch platforms... that would be an interesting challenge. It might give some Brand-X junkies a chance to try Brand-Y.

I suppose people might think that I couldn't possibly be objective because I work for a reseller. Hopefully my posts here would testify to the fact that I'm looking for good tools for the job, and I don't care where they come from.

I'll look in on the new ArchiCAD updates!

[ajayholland]

This whole thing has been a pursuit since oh, 1997.... The rest is history... I've changed horses a few times, too.


I'm with Evil Steve. Having been at it since 1989 (Architrion) when Mac and PC users barely spoke to each other. Its hard to believe that what I recognize as the BEST BIM solution is part of AutoDesk, once the arch-enemy! As a former user, I applaud AC's achievements, but I doubt that they can keep up with Revit.

-AJH

[Richard McCarthy]

You ever heard the saying that everyone has got a double somewhere in the world. Well Wes you have any uncanny likeness to my boss. I will try and post a picture at some point. :shock:



It's call a "doppelganger" :)