Line Work Tool In 8.0

[Jit]

Hi All

Has there been any change or advancement in linework ? It is very time consuming trying to use line work tool.

How are you guys coping with it ?

[iru69]

I'm coping just fine, so far...

Maybe this has already been covered at length before, but I'll bite - what sort of advancements are you hoping to see? What makes it time consuming to use?

[archjake]

Elevations are time consuming.

I have not had a chance to play with this in 8, but to get an elevation to read correctly with profiles, it is a pain in the butt.

If you have a simple building it isn't a big deal, but when reveals are in walls, especially if there are vertical and horizontal reveals, it takes alot of work to make the drawing read.

I usually start with the advanced model graphics and override the silhouettes to a wide line, then I use the linework to <not silhouette> all the lines (including reveals) so that they are not profiled. Then I will set the linework tool to medium lines and do a minor profile on items that are close, but not too close.

Maybe it is the override silhouettes settings that need to be revised.

I waste a lot of time trying to profile building elevations, only to make a revision to the building and have to go back over lines to not silhouette them.

Going over w/ drafting lines would just make things worse if things were to change.

Just using the linework tool without the silhouette feature can be a pain as well.

[iru69]

I'm having those issues as well - I did a search on the forum earlier today looking for elevation "visibility" control on objects in the distance (turns out there isn't any). But I'm not so sure that linework improvements would help that. I think for these issues, we need improvements in the elevation graphics/visibility tools.

[ejburrell67787]

I thought you could at least lock your linework to the model so if part of it is adjusted then your elevation linework will follow the adjustments.

[Jit]

i suppose I was hoping for a dare I say ADT like feature..i.e. subdivisions in sections

[tatlin]

Can you please post some example images of what is not working correctly with Silhouettes in elevation?

Is the need to have better automatic thickened silhouettes or is it more about providing 'depth control' in elevation /section so not just model edges but all model faces get lighter as they recede from the view?

I cannot guarantee anything specific in future releases (of course) but generally the more examples you provide, the better we can understand the problem and (hopefully) provide a solution.

thanks,

[Jit]

Thanks for your input Tatlin

All I am after is the way ADT does its sections & elevations. When in ADT, we used to do a section or elevations back in 1999+++, we were able to input subdivisions with our sections. These would then define the depth which would then represent line weights. The closer the wall for example, the darkler the line work, the further the wall, the lighter the line work for the wall.

For reference, you might want to refer to a Architectural Desktop 3.0 +++

It is by Autodesk if you know what I mean


and please forgive my ignorance but how do I access the "silhouettes " it looks like I have no idea about this feature

many thanks

[Scott D Davis]

is it more about providing 'depth control' in elevation /section?
Yes! That would be very cool!

[iru69]

Silhouettes are (and someone please clarify if I don't have this right) on by default - they're just the standard line shown around objects. You can overide these silhouettes with your choice of line style by going to view>advanced model graphics...

As archjake pointed out, the problem is that there doesn't appear to be much control over what gets silhouettes and what doesn't. For instance if you want a super heavy line style around the profile of your building elevation, that's no problem, but you may also end up with a super heavy line around your windows, which is. So then you have to go back and use the linework tool to overide the silhoutte overide. While this isn't the end of the world, it seems overly tedius for something that could be done automatically with the right controls. How those controls are integrated into generating sections and elevations is a whole discussion topic in itself. I'd also want it so phases can be distinguished as well - for instance silhouettes around new construction would be heavy, while the existing building would be lighter.

[iru69]

Is the need to have better automatic thickened silhouettes or is it more about providing 'depth control' in elevation /section so not just model edges but all model faces get lighter as they recede from the view?

Both. archjake and jit have brought up two kind of separate issues. Personally, I think the depth control is more imperative because the work arounds are just beyond tedious, but as archjake and I described above, there also needs to be more control over how silhouette/profiles display. Thanks for asking!

[archjake]

Can you please post some example images of what is not working correctly with Silhouettes in elevation?

Is the need to have better automatic thickened silhouettes or is it more about providing 'depth control' in elevation /section so not just model edges but all model faces get lighter as they recede from the view?

I cannot guarantee anything specific in future releases (of course) but generally the more examples you provide, the better we can understand the problem and (hopefully) provide a solution.

thanks,

You are on the right track, but I don't think that everything would get lighter, some items would still be darker (profiled) like the edge of the building (where a parapet or roof is against the sky. Doors and windows, etc. would be lighter. It depends on the building or how the designer wants to profile things. Isn't this a fairly standard practice?

See the attached project of an example of how I would want this set of walls to read.
It takes a lot of work to make it read with the available tools we have in Revit.

I used darker lines than I typically would use for the example.

[david.kingham]

I agree, elevations need a lot of work, what I need is objects in the distance to get lighter based upon their distance from the nearest plane. The silhoute lines would still need to be dark but need to be lighter than the nearest silhoute lines. I would also like the patterns to change to grayscale as they get farther away, with lighter shades the further you get away...make any sense? lol see attachment

[stuntmonkee]

Would it be possible to have a setup similar to the existing line weights control box. Where it adjusts the line weights based off of scale, but instead of scale, have a distance setting. and then similar to the say you define depth for elevations and sections, there could be several depth boxes defined with diff colors. That way everything that is located inside that depth plane would be adjusted by maybe even a percentage off of the primary plane. Almost like 1/2 toning, 3/4 toning, or 1/4 toning or something?

The problems would start when items are moving away. .such as ridge lines or something of the sort. . .would the line change tone and thickness mid line? thats always been a drafting problem though.

Anyway, I'm sure this sounds garbled, but it was a brainstorm with text. . .after a late night. . . .a fun late night.

[bowlingbrad]

Scott Davis has the perfect solution in THIS THREAD (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=2501&highlight=elevation)

[Jit]

now thats what I am talking about!!!!

[Scott D Davis]

Scott Davis has the perfect solution in THIS THREAD (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=2501&highlight=elevation)
now if i only knew how to program Revit.... :-)

[jamesd10181097]

Is the need to have better automatic thickened silhouettes or is it more about providing 'depth control' in elevation /section so not just model edges but all model faces get lighter as they recede from the view?

thanks,

I would love to have depth control. I control line thickness based on distace from an imaginary plane. If we could have visibility control so that certain objects display one thickness at one distance and a different thickness at a farther distance, maybe 3-4 different zones. Perhaps it could work similar to the elevation tag in plan, the way the blue line shows up and you can move it, so if you click on the elevation tag and 3-4 lines show up representing the different zones. This would allow for subtle adjustment from elevation to elevation rather that hard line rules of distance.

[jamesd10181097]

I guess I should read all the posts before I post one, I got a little redundant there.

As long as elevations are being discussed. Is there a way to define in elevation that anything below the ground line will be dashed. At first I did my foundations by using the linework tool, which was a hassle because I had to click on each line multiple times to get it dashed, but then when a round of extreme changes occured it was all back to solid lines.

[beegee]

Using 8.0 continuous footings, they are defined as category Structural Foundations and can be set to display dashed linework.

[Cathy Hadley]

This is redundant for some folks... but worth repeating as I find many users are not fully utilizing these options.

In Elevation views you can overide the line weight of any elements per view. i.e. windows lighter, walls heavier etc... in Visibility Graphics. I find this goes a long way to get you where you are headed... before you start the linework tool.

This is no way to be a means of not supporting the depth control issue wishes, we need them and I believe they at the factory are well aware of it.

CZH

[iru69]

In Elevation views you can overide the line weight of any elements per view. i.e. windows lighter, walls heavier etc... in Visibility Graphics. I find this goes a long way to get you where you are headed... before you start the linework tool.CZH

This is a great tip! Thank you for pointing it out.

[sbrown]

Yes the key to elevations is to create overide view templates that contain the majority of the linework fixes, then just use linework and detail lines on the rest,

[Jit]

Then how do you create say wall that has a dog leg in it. That means that all windows will be one line weight. You will still need to go and manually use the line work tool.
Unless I am wrong about this.

[jamesd10181097]

When using the overide to make my foundations dashed in elevation I run inot on significant problem. Since the foundation is all three dimensional there are actuall a minimum of two lines overlaid. Since they are not exactly the same length this causes the dashes to overlap making them appear nearly solid. So I still end up using the linework tool to make half the lines invisible.

Unless there is something else I am missing this still makes representing foundations in elevation a real pain since if something changes I need to remember to go back and check that everthing still looks right.

[Steve_Stafford]

One caveat...view templates that use over-rides (or a view that uses them for that matter) for object lineweights will play havoc on export to dwg if that happens. All the over-rides result in forced colors, not bylayer.

[jwilhelm]

I seem to recall a Revit factory person indicating that htis issue was gonna be addressed in the next release

[bclarch]

When using the overide to make my foundations dashed in elevation I run inot on significant problem. Since the foundation is all three dimensional there are actuall a minimum of two lines overlaid. Since they are not exactly the same length this causes the dashes to overlap making them appear nearly solid. So I still end up using the linework tool to make half the lines invisible.

Unless there is something else I am missing this still makes representing foundations in elevation a real pain since if something changes I need to remember to go back and check that everthing still looks right.
Here is another option. It is still a workaround but it is fast and it works quite well.
1. Trace over the foundations using detail lines (hidden, dashed or whatever style you prefer). This can be done very quickly if you use the "pick lines" option. (Don't worry about situations where there is an overlap or setback, just pick one of the lines in those locations.) Also check the box to automatically lock the lines to the model. Locking the lines to the model allows you to move the foundation walls without having to remember to revise the elevations. You will, however, need to remember to manually update the elevations if you add a new foundation wall or if you delete a wall and and recreate it.
2. Use a solid white filled region to cover everything below grade. Use a thick linetype for the top border of the region (this will become the grade line) and use invisible lines for the other sides so that they don't show in the view.
3. Once you have finished drawing the region, select it and adjust the draw order to send it to the back. The detail lines associated with the foundation lines will become visible giving you the look that you want. The solid lines generated by the model will be hidden by the filled region solving your overlapping lines problem.