New user family creation questions

[Joef]

I am trying to figure out how to create a non-rectangular corner window using the family editor. I started this discussion on alt.cad.revit where Scott Brown has provided some suggestions. Unfortunately I haven't really managed to get much to work. I think I am missing something in the basic operation of the program.

I started using the generic wall template in the family editor to place my window because the window template has a rectangular window and I need a window where the top is at an angle. I created reference planes in the shape of the window, but I cannot create a height dimension from either side because the dimension will not snap to the intersection of the angle reference plane and the vertical reference plane.How do I create this dimension, since in most discussions here it is advised to "dimension everything"?

I created a void in the shape of the window as this will " cut through any solid geometry" according to the manual. In the 3d view I cannot see anything being cut, just the tan outline of the void. Does the solid geometry refer to a wall when placed in a project or is solid geometry only a solid that you have created in the family editor?

I need to create a sloping window between the two angled windows ( It creates a kind of sloping skylight, if that makes any sense). How does one work in three dimensions, if it isn't possible to place a refence plane in the 3d view? I cannot even see the reference planes in the 3d view so I can't tell if I have placed it correctly in the 2d views. Is the solution to give every reference plane a name so it can be selected in 2d? Seems a bit elaborate.

I have built many models using 3d studio and Autocad solids so I am used to constructing things in 3d. I normally create using simple shapes and boolean operators. Are there boolean operators in Revit?

I have created a test family and saved it. Since I started out with the generic wall template, how does the program know whether I have created a door or a window? When I load my test family nothing happens. Whatever is the default window gets installed and my loaded family does not appear in the list. There is no error message.

I have a ton more questions, but perhaps they will answer themselves. I think the main problem with revit is "philosophical" rather than technical. It is a very unique program and I find it easy to use in the project mode, but the family editor leaves me scratching my head.

Thanks in advance for any assistance,

Joe Feldman

[aaronrumple]

Step One. Start with some simple families. To lear how they are made - open up some of the revot provided families and look at those.

Families are a bit of an art form...

[Scott D Davis]

I started using the generic wall template in the family editor to place my window because the window template has a rectangular window and I need a window where the top is at an angle.

You must use the window template to create a window. You can modify this window to be any shape you want. Or start with another window family that is already angled, do a 'saveas' and modify it to suit your needs.


I created reference planes in the shape of the window, but I cannot create a height dimension from either side because the dimension will not snap to the intersection of the angle reference plane and the vertical reference plane.

Create horizontal and vertical ref places at the intersections, and dimension to those. Or use model lines instead of Ref planes in this case. (kind of a family editor trick).


I created a void in the shape of the window as this will " cut through any solid geometry" according to the manual.

You need to use the Cut geometry tool, select the void, then slect the geometry to be cut. But I think this will take care of itself when you use the correct Winodw Template.


I need to create a sloping window between the two angled windows ( It creates a kind of sloping skylight, if that makes any sense).

You need to study how some other window families were built, such as the Atrium Window and Bay Windows. You certainly picked a complicated first window for the family editor.


I have built many models using 3d studio and Autocad solids so I am used to constructing things in 3d. I normally create using simple shapes and boolean operators. Are there boolean operators in Revit?

See my Sig line quote.....as for Boolean operations, there are ways of using solids and voids in various combinations to create any shape you want. There aren't currently any 'if-then' type of geometry.


I have created a test family and saved it. Since I started out with the generic wall template, how does the program know whether I have created a door or a window? When I load my test family nothing happens. Whatever is the default window gets installed and my loaded family does not appear in the list. There is no error message.

The program does not know if you created a door or window. This is because you have not created a window. Just a generic wall base family. It could be a picture frame for all the program cares. It will be listed under the Components in the Design Bar.


I have a ton more questions, but perhaps they will answer themselves. I think the main problem with revit is "philosophical" rather than technical. It is a very unique program and I find it easy to use in the project mode, but the family editor leaves me scratching my head.

Yes, the family editor can get you at first. But make sure to do the tutorials, and start with the basics. You will get it and it will become much easier. Just don't try and tackle a corner window with a sloping glazed top on your first attempt! :shock:

[sbrown]

Scotts right you need to just use horizontal ref planes, on for the high side, and one for the low side. You'll have to do this on both sides of the window. But I was thinking and to start you should probably just make one side of the window and put it in both walls, just make the opening on the edge big enough to cut out the rest of the wall. the two windows can overlap. Now you can move on with your design and work on the corner window later. Note that you can create a window " in-place" which maybe easiest for you while you are designing. You can also draw with model lines on your walls to design instead of trying to build complex families before you know exactly what you want.

I don't have revit where I am or I would build the family you need.

Good luck, but its new years eve, go have a beer and start fresh in the new year.

[Joef]

Thanks for the quick response!

I was using "Generic Wall Based" template as this was used in a tutorial I found (by Elise Moss). It is based on Revit 4.5 and I think that version must have handled families a bit differently. When I treated the family that I created as a "component" it worked fine.
I have run through the window family creation tutorial supplied with Revit and it is very easy to follow. Creating a standard window is pretty straight forward.

Using your suggestions I have created an angled window and have "flexed" it successfuly. Now to study the atrium window and see how the sloping works. Thanks for all the help!

Happy New Year!

Joe

[sbrown]

Heres the start to your family, just add some more ref planes and geometry.

To use, load into project, pick window, place on a wall and align the left side to the adjoining wall.

[David]

Reference planes are planes, not lines; and therefore an intersection of 2 ref planes does not create a point from which to dimension a pivot. An invisible symbolic line can be created starting from a ref line, or lines and then a parameterezed angle dimension can control the slope.

The attached file modifies Scott's file. After creating the sym line, the void was locked to the angled sym line. The upper end is not locked to avoid over constraint, so that side would still be controled by the vertical dim.

This was pointed out to me in another post.

[Joef]

Thanks for the file.

I've been working on this quite a bit. I have run through a lot of the tutorials and read a great deal. I have come to the conclusion that I should create this as an "in-place " family since I don't think I'll be using it very often in the future. I've manage to create the two angled windows with either extrusions or sweeps and it works quite well. What is difficult is to create the sloping glass. I've managed to do it, but it was a bit messy. I created the triangle flat, then rotated it. Seems extrusions only work in planar views. (North, South, etc.)
I think I'll explore setting a section as a work plane and see what happens. I've attached a picture of the window I am trying to create.

Joe

[Scott D Davis]

Extrusion will work in any plane, but you have to define the plane first with a Ref Plane. Create the Ref Plane at the angle you need, and name it in the Properies box. Now, when you create the extrusion, select your named plane in the Select by name options.

Also, after switching your work plane to your named plan, toggle the work plane grid on to be sure the plane defined is the one you intended.

http://www.zoogdesign.com/forums/phpBB2/download.php?id=1122

[Scott D Davis]

Here's another very simple solution for your corner window. Use Curtain Walls for the vertical pieces and a Ruled Curtain System for the angled top.

First, create two curtain walls at a 90 degree angle to each other. Then, edit the elevation profile of each, cutting the top at a 45 degree angle towards the outer corner. Then select the Ruled Curtain tool from the Modelling pull-down. Select the top-angled edge of one curtain wall, and then the other. Then use the Mullion tool to place the mullions. This took about 2 minutes.

http://www.zoogdesign.com/forums/phpBB2/download.php?id=1123

[Joef]

Bingo! I think I took more than two minutes though. I knew there must be an easy way. Though I did learn a lot about work planes and reference planes on the way. At one point I almost had the entire window carved out of a solid using solids and voids. I'll unlearn that method in a hurry. ( though it is probably useful for some component creation.) Thanks a lot for the help. I think Revit is a brilliant program. I have been doing CAD for a number of years now and there was always the promise on the horizon of this type of program. It's finally getting close. This is the program that I was afraid of when I was an architectural model maker! :)

Joe Feldman