Array in Curtain Panels

[bsuccar]

Has anyone attempted and succeeded in creating a curtain panel with a parametric array - number of elements based on a formula? I tried to create a panel made of only louvres/horizontal sweeps that increase in number as the curtain wall grid is stretched.
I have tried several techniques that usually work in other types of component families but, in curtain panels, the constraints inexplicably drop on either end of the panel. I have also tried nested families. Anyone?
Bilal

[bsuccar]

I have tried that as well and it seems to unlock itself. Did you try shared families or creating a nested curtain panel element?
Bilal

[bsuccar]

Thanks for that Bilal, but I think curtain panels cannot be nested. In fact this topic does raise the issue of reference planes within curtain panel families; they seem to be hard-wired somehow and changing their properties to strong-reference, weak-reference or no reference does not effect the results in any deductible way. I must be missing something there...
Bilal

[bsuccar]

seem to be hard-wired somehow and changing their properties to strong-reference, weak-reference or no reference does not effect the results in any deductible way. I must be missing something there...
Bilal
You are so right Bilal (or both of us are so wrong) but the reference planes and reference lines seem to change their behaviour within curtain panel families. By the way, how do you use these reference planes to create panel for Curtain Systems?
Bilal

[Mr Spot]

Haven't tried it, but i don't believe it would be possible due to the nature of a curtain panel.

Array is constrained by two elements with both there origin's locked in all 3 dimensions. The problem i forsee is you usually have to lock the second in left/right plane as a dimension from the first (depending on direction of array). As curtain wall panels are instance based and there is no parameter setup for width/height you cannot constrain the array in this manner.

I'll give it a quick try but i can't see it working...

[Mr Spot]

Okay can't base it on a formula. But an array will work in a curtain wall constrained in 2 dimensions. The 3rd dimension in my example width i've left for the user to manually update in the project.

In my example i had a simple flat louvre arrayed to last then constrained to centre left/right and centre front/back. Then array in front elevation locking the top and the bottom blades.

This worked successful. The width of the blade will need to be controlled using an instance parameter and manually adjusted in the project to the width of the panel.

HTH.

[bsuccar]

Hey Chris, thanks for joining the discussion :).
We both (2 Bilals and 1 Chris ) has reached the same result.
if an arrayed group works fine in other families (with instance or type parameters), I don't understand why it can't work in a curtain panel family. Maybe its something to do with constraining groups within panel templates. Also, if a parametric group does work, why not a formula-based one? It seems like something for the factory to look at.
Bilal

[Mr Spot]

I'd imagine you can't base it on a formula as in a curtain wall family you don't have access to the width and height parameters to use in the formula. If we could access these then it would work quite easily...

[Steve_Stafford]

Could you post a sketch of the concept you are after? Maybe there is another way to tackle this issue? For instance you could replace the panels that hold this louver assembly with a wall type (since we can do that now) that could just host a louvered window family? Just musing...

[bsuccar]

Could you post a sketch of the concept you are after? Maybe there is another way to tackle this issue? For instance you could replace the panels that hold this louver assembly with a wall type (since we can do that now) that could just host a louvered window family? Just musing...
Thanks Steve, though a workaround, it wouldn't help much as a typical window in a basic wall won't resize with the system grids (on all sides at least). Adding walls to allow for windows will also complicate the scheduling.

[Steve_Stafford]

Thanks Steve, though a workaround, it wouldn't help much as a typical window in a basic wall won't resize with the system grids (on all sides at least). Adding walls to allow for windows will also complicate the scheduling.No sketch means we have no idea what you actually want to do. You are asking about a general feature applied in a specific way. Ultimately it comes down to what you want to build right? Sometimes not being able to do something could use fresh eyes and sometimes the answer isn't where you were looking.

If you are only interested in a conceptual discussion and one panel fits all so to speak...the approach you are taking won't provide a broad brush solution. On the other hand if you are building something real, there might be another way. Curtain wall systems are a kit of parts in the real world too right? :)

[Mr Spot]

You could also do it using curtain grids and mullions. All depends on how you want to schedule things.

[bsuccar]

No sketch means we have no idea what you actually want to do. You are asking about a general feature applied in a specific way. Ultimately it comes down to what you want to build right? Sometimes not being able to do something could use fresh eyes and sometimes the answer isn't where you were looking.

If you are only interested in a conceptual discussion and one panel fits all so to speak...the approach you are taking won't provide a broad brush solution. On the other hand if you are building something real, there might be another way. Curtain wall systems are a kit of parts in the real world too right? :)
Hi Steve
You are right. In fact I should have attached an image from the start.
I am not particularly looking for a work-around but I am trying to identify an issue that needs to be dealt with (my post belongs in a different forum?).
The study below uses inplace families (editing the curtain panels in place-individually) so it can be considered an adequate workaround already. I was hoping to produce the same result using a component family with a parametric array to allow for an additional louver for each 120mm height in panel. What do you and Chris think?
Bilal

[Shaun v Rooyen]

Some times I think we all over complicate matters
We separate these components. Purely for the reason, that it gets sent to different manufacturers. Doors to door people, windows to window people and louvers to ........This also enables us to create the relevant or separate schedules.If you are going to spend the time building it In-place, why not rather build the family so that you can RE-USE. For this reason we simply do not use in-place families.

We do louvers in two ways. One is to build the family using a window template.
The other, which I find far quicker, is to create a Railing type.
Just my 2 cents, just a thought, use it, lose it.

But for your purpose, here is a panel that works! the only thing is for the array to work I had to create a width parameter, which you have to adjust according to the panel width.
there is also an array parameter to change the amount of louvers. Enjoy

[Mr Spot]

Zeds this is what i deduced also.

For what you are tying to do i think this panel family would be the best idea. it would just be a matter of measuring the width of the panel each time and adjusting the panel accordingly.

[bsuccar]

I think we all reached the same conclusion (I only used in-place families for the study).
It would be good if a curtain panel family includes implicit height and width parameters so that it can handle the formula in question (a hard wired H and W parameters that have no explicit value inside the family editor but acquire their instance values inside the project)
Thank you all for your help.
Bilal