Workset Implementation Questions

[bclarch]

We are finally at a point where we are going to train a second user in the office on Revit. The idea is to have him help me on a project that is already started. This means tackling a subject that I haven't had to deal with yet - worksets. (Yes, I know that I should have been using them already for any number of useful reasons, but I haven't been forced to yet so I haven't. :) ) I have checked out the help and tutorial files but I am left with some questions.

1. If one user generates additional views (interior elevations , sections, levels, etc.) will the annotation symbols be contained in his workset or will they be accessible by any user?
2. If families are added by a user do they become workset specific?
3. Are there any pitfalls that are not covered in the tutorials / help files that I should be on the lookout for?

Thanks in advance.

[aaronrumple]

1. Symbols and annotations are view specific. Whoever has the view checked out can work on the notes/detailing without checking out the model.

2. There is a families category of worksets. Once added they will be owned by whoever loads them. Once relinquished - anyone may edit them. Once loaded the originator doesn't need to relinquish them for others to use them - just if others want to change the type parameters or make new types.

3. Just make sure everyone understands the concept. Borrow elements instead of checking out when possible. Understand and read the dialogs. Changing a view property is a good example. Everyone always checks "Make editable" when they really should be just checking OK. They just never read the dialog box.

Anyone can add anything to any workset withou checking out a workset. A very nice feature and big time saver.

[Allen Lacy]

3. Are there any pitfalls that are not covered in the tutorials / help files that I should be on the lookout for?Worksets are like layers in a sense, if you don't put objects in the correct workset, then you may spend time chasing them down in other views.

[sbrown]

You should both sit down together and watch the worksets training session on adsks website.

Some of the most common pitfalls in early workset use, is the new user not understanding that everything they see potentially shows up in another view. For example a line in an elevation at about the ceiling ht, well it may not be a line, it maybe the ceiling, the new user will delete the line and not think twice that he could have deleted a ceiling and all the light fixtures that go with it.

I highly recomend NOT using element borrowing(when I say this I mean the philosophy where no one checks out any worksets) when someone first starts a project, there is no control, they will see the make editable box so many times they won't even think about finding out what they are making editable. Safeguard your model by checking out vital worksets, forcing permissions to be asked and granted.

Make sure the new user understands deleting a section mark from a view, deletes the actual section, etc.

[bowlingbrad]

... watch the worksets training session on adsks website...

Can't find it. Could you post a link? We are feeling the pain of worksets since we've added a 3rd user.

[bclarch]

Thanks guys. We intend to get things rolling this week. I'll let you know how it goes.

[Wes Macaulay]

I highly recomend NOT using element borrowingThat's quite a statement, Scott!

Are you sure about this? I see what you mean, but... couldn't you just emphasize the fact that you're sharing data - "be careful what you're doing" - and just leave it that?

[bclarch]

OK here's an update.

Things have gone pretty well. We had one incident where my co-worker needed to make an inserted ACAD drawing workset editable for me. I sent a request to make it editable and he allowed it. Later when he went to save to central (stc) he received a message saying that we had both modified the object and that he would be unable to stc and that all of his work since his last stc would be lost. After trying various ways around the problem I worked out the following. I did a stc from my local copy. I reloaded the worksets into my co-worker's local copy to pick up my changes. Then I did a "save as" from his copy to make a new central file. This worked. I renamed the central file to the old central file name and we were good to go.

There were two things that both of us needed to get our minds around in order to make things finally click for us. I will summarize them here for the benefit of others who are reading this thread in preparation for implementing worksets.

First concept: Opening worksets just makes them viewable, making a workset editable allows you to make changes. I was so used to the idea of "opening" a drawing in order to work on it that it took me a while to get away from that idea. I think that it would be helpful for workset newbies if the functions were labeled more explicitly. Instead of "open" and "editable" how about "make visible" with "make editable"? These terms would clarify the manner with which these functions relate to the model elements.

Second concept: Borrowing an elemant and making an element editable are essentially the same function. The distinction lies in whether the workset containing that item has been checked out or not.

[sbrown]

I stand by not using element borrowing with a new user. Its fine and very valuable when all users understand the system but when you plan to "throw new users in at the end of the project to help out" you are asking for dissaster. If I do need to throw a new user on the job, I create a workset with their name for the active workset and they can do whatever they want on that workset, but I keep the others so they have to ask permission for an object, thereby allowing me to educate them just in time on whatever it is they are doing.

[Wes Macaulay]

Ahhh.... in that situation I do agree. Good point!

[bclarch]

I stand by not using element borrowing with a new user. Its fine and very valuable when all users understand the system but when you plan to "throw new users in at the end of the project to help out" you are asking for dissaster. If I do need to throw a new user on the job, I create a workset with their name for the active workset and they can do whatever they want on that workset, but I keep the others so they have to ask permission for an object, thereby allowing me to educate them just in time on whatever it is they are doing.I can understand your desire to play it safe. However, it seems to me that on a project with many users you could find yourself receiving so many editing requests that you would find it hard to get your own work done. Has this ever been an issue?

In my case, I am dealing with one person whose desk is right next to mine, so communication is easy. He is also very computer savvy and a careful worker. I know that he will ask me or take the appropriate steps (saving to central or creating a duplicate file to experiment in) before he attempts something that might cause him to get in over his head. In the problem cited above all that he did was grant me editing rights. The program interpreted this as a change to the object for some reason. Revit doesn't always play nicely with imported ACAD files. However, like Wes, I do see the value of your procedure in a situation where one doesn't know how capable, responsible and careful the new team members are.

[sbrown]

It sounds like your situation is fine and my advice isn't required. Its great that you have the new user right next to you, that is the best training scenario. Happy workseting.

[bowlingbrad]

...you have the new user right next to you, that is the best training scenario...

I live by this! Great to hear that others do too! It allows me see a couple of things; 1) a lot of different types of projects, 2) The exact skill level of the person I'm training.

[sbrown]

I could put together a chart in plan of the seating arrangements in the office and predict who will be the quickest trained by their seating location and it would be 80-90% accurate. The mentoring system works very well in training. Unfortunately in a large office you can't have everyone sit next to you. Its very interesting, I was just at a conference where Gehrys software-digitial project was being presented. They approach training in the following-heavy handed, but successful way. If you are going to us our software, its the owner who will tell you to use it and ALL players WILL use it and be in the same location. So the struct, mep, arch, contractor, etc. are all on the same team. This obviously sounds great and works well for his projects that he can command that type of atmosphere and process change. Its a little harder to do that for most of us.

[Wes Macaulay]

This is a great thread. And the mentoring process is the best one - it's how people learn most readily. The problem is that having a Revit mentor in an office is really rare. If every office had one Revit would by flying off the shelves. Or everyone would already have it and simply be on subscription.

[Paul P.]

I agree that this is a great thread and it's just at the right time for me as were gearing up to use worksets for the first time, I made a presentation today introducing worksets and what there about to the rest of the office. Were going through the training next week and using them after that as and when we need arises, will post how it goes.

With regards to a Revit mentor I'm sort of that where I work as I have biggest interest in it so I pass on what knowledge I have to the others and if I don't know I turn to this site, which is sort of my Revit mentor.

Regards, Paul.