Sloped Structural Columns

[ThomsonBarney]

Has anyone broken the code on sloped structural columns?

1) Are they handled?
2) If so, how are they defined?
3) If so, do the 3rd party analysis/design software work with them?

Thanks,
Barney in DC

[lev.lipkin]

You can use in-place Family Editor which allows definition of any 'solid', inc. sloped column ('Structural Column', 'Create in place' option in Option Bar).

To get symboling representation make sure that parameter 'Symbol Representation' (under 'Settings', 'Family Categories and Parameters ...') is set to 'From Family' and add symbolic line in the family as desired (you might need to dimension and constrain symbolic line ends).

Add Analytical Model to the family using Symbolic lines of appropriate category 'Analytical model, (cut) or (projection)'.

It is easier to keep plan view cutting the solid of the column. If different representation is desired, please post examples here. Thanks.

3rd parties have access to the instances of such columns, including analytical model definitions.

Factory knows about issues with loadable (not in-place) slanted structural columns families, and plans to address those issues are under discussion.

[Jos Arpink]

Thanks, I'm also in need of sloped columns here.
I did as you suggest, and that works, thanks. The downside appears to be that a new in-place family is created for each instance of the column as it is copied to another location, which makes it difficult to edit all the columns at once if, for example, their size changes.

I tried creating a loadable family, using the "Structural Column" family as a template. It generally works, except I'm unable to suppress the vertical line in the analytical model. any thoughts on that?

Thanks,
Jos Arpink

[Wes Macaulay]

Hey Jos. If you're copying custom columns around, consider doing them all inside the same family. So to add a column, click one, hit Edit, and copy it while working in the in-place family editing mode. That way you won't have extra copies of the family showing up in the browser.

Also, I don't see why you couldn't create a column family that has the geometry you want; a sweep along a reference line in a component family would allow you to slope the column on any angle you wish. Being a component family, you edit one, you edit them all. And you can group columns inside the in-place family and copy the groups around. Edit one and you edit them all in this case, too.

Cheers (nice to see some more Vancouverites on the board)

[Jos Arpink]

Thanks Wes,

I was able to create a component family using the 'Structural Column.rfa' template. That's great for the physical model in the Revit Building world. However, in Revit Structure, I'm also concerned about maintaining the integrity of the analytical model. It seems Revit is intent on introducing a vertical component in the analytical model, which I want to supress.

In any case, I think my workaround is to create a component family based on the 'Structural Beam & Brace.rfa template, and model these columns as braces.

Take a look at the attachment, and you'll see what I mean. The one on the left is modelled as a brace. The one on the right is modelled as a column and contains the errant vertical element in the analytical model.

[Wes Macaulay]

You're quite right about the analytical model wanting straight lines. With regards to the helical shape, there's a method used which is a bit awkward at this point, but gets something like the shape desired. See the attachment.

[Jos Arpink]

Thanks for the cool double helix, Wes.
I'm dissapointed that there doesn't seem to be any elegant way to model sloped columns that maintains the integrity of the analytical model. I hope the developers are listening here. The product holds so much promise, but I think they need to do much work developing tools to handle "out-of-plane" geometry. Sloped columns and warped slabs are just 2 examples.

[Wes Macaulay]

Jos - check out reference lines... these provide a skeleton for out of plane modelling. Bit of a drag that we have to build them first; maybe they'll provide more modeling tools for this. Actually, given the programmers' experience at previous applications, this shouldn't be hard. As Lev says, it's all a matter of time.

[haojan]

Working in RS3 I am able to model a rotated solid form with an analytical line but have not been able to figure out how I can export this information to ETABS.