Revit with Terminal Services

[Mr Spot]

We are contemplating using terminal services in our office to allow uses to work from home when needed.

Has anyone else attempted this before? Is the image received good enough? What type of internet spec would you think is the minimum... :)

Cheers,

[neb1998]

i do not expect this to work very well, i have used remote destop over a 100mbps connection to render images on another machine...it is very slow to move the cursor around. I expect that if you try to do this the actual effect will be much closer to regenerating on acad version 1 -- newspaper in hand...

[mlgatzke]

Terminal Services is intended for remote administration. Basic use. We've used it for Word, Excel, etc. However, I think that trying to use Terminal Services for remote use of CAD, much less a power hungry app like BIM, would be quite frustrating - even if you had an OC (fiber) line. That's just not what the application was designed for.

[Scott D Davis]

You'd be better off putting a license on a license server, and then using a VPN connection from home to tag the license server.

[Mr Spot]

Thanks for the info. From my understanding there had been some recent improvements in terminal services making them a little more userable. We were planning on getting a very beefy server to handle one of our staff members who lives about 5 hours away.

Mainly ACAD work. Would it be suitable for that? Sounds like a resounding no on revit...

[p.vicini]

Actualy i'm working a lot from home , or other sites, using only the desktop remote tool; it's working very well...i didn't see all this delay, i have to say i'm not very far from my office and i have in both places the cable connection; but i didn't see slow growing also using dsl conn; Vpn is very expensive in Italy and i never tried it.

[luigi]

Actualy i'm working a lot from home , or other sites, using only the desktop remote tool; it's working very well...i didn't see all this delay, i have to say i'm not very far from my office and i have in both places the cable connection; but i didn't see slow growing also using dsl conn; Vpn is very expensive in Italy and i never tried it.
By VPN, I am sure he meant the software VPN that comes with windows...The Hardware VPN is expensive even in states.. ;)

[k.armstrong]

Hey Chris,

I have VPN into my office and was connecting using a 1500/512 ADSL braodband at home into 512/512 VPN router in the office.

Now my internet at home is bl000dy fast but connecting through VPN with encription slows things a little. I haven't tried revit yet - no need, but i used to connect with ADT and when i was refreshing a project or in the project browser it was very very slow - especially when there were lots of drawings in the project - cause it was pulling all the info across the connection - so sometimes i was waiting for it to pull 50-70Mb across the connection.

So on this basis i would conclude that revit with its large files may be the same - initial opening and saving of files slow - but when you have it in the pc cache - what would be different?

Maybe the answer is break the project up into small worksets so effective fiel sizes stay small - but then i'm a novice in Revit and have not touched worksets yet

Ken

[neb1998]

One piece of advice, dont invest any money into this before trying it...your results will be less than satisfactory...

[rhys]

The way to go is VPN on a windows server using worksets in Revit. That way after a long load up in the morning, work is local, with a save to central say over lunch, same again PM . All depends on ADSL/ DSL speeds but it is workable - just but only just with a 56,000k model.

[iru69]

Just to clarify for those that may not be familiar with Terminal Services...

Terminal Services and a Remote Desktop lets remote client use the Windows desktop and applications that reside on the Terminal Services server. This would theoretically allow a remote client, such as your home pc (be it Windows, OSX, Linux), connect to the Terminal Services server at work and run the Revit installed on the server's network.

Unlike a typical VPN connection scenario, where the remote client is running Revit on their home Windows PC and opening files over the VPN connection, the remote client using Terminal Services is transmitting an entire desktop (including applications, keyboard input, mouse clicks, etc) from the server to their computer over the internet.

There is a *lot* more bandwidth involved in Terminal Services/Remote Desktop.

Edit: I should qualify that "lot": loading a 30MB Revit file over a VPN is going to take some time, but once it's loaded into memory, very little is required of the VPN connection (until it's saved), where as TS/RD requires a constant connection of data being sent back and forth between TS and the RD.

[p.vicini]

with the remote desktop control by xp, i worked withouth problems files until 30 MB , i didn't see any big deceleration, mouse worked with normal speed and all was good; surely some time , i had slow down by the net; but i stopped to split files in workset e download them in local; for me is better and faster work in remote.

You will see that tomorrow i'll wake up from this dream :-)


Hey Luigi!!!
Bentornato dalle vacanze...è andato Tutto bene??? a presto :-)

[janunson]

Thanks for the info. From my understanding there had been some recent improvements in terminal services making them a little more userable. We were planning on getting a very beefy server to handle one of our staff members who lives about 5 hours away.

Mainly ACAD work. Would it be suitable for that? Sounds like a resounding no on revit...

I have a high-speed cable connection to the office and Have tried using Revit 8 and Acad 2006 over VPN two ways:

1. Terminal into a server (or my workstation) and do some work.
2. Connect to the VPN, then run the program on my local machine (the license server will serve a license over the VPN just fine)

2 definitely works better. As good as at the office (assuming your remote computer is up to speed)

1 is a bit slow. especially w/ anything significant on screen. even worse if the server has any animation or window transparency set. but i've done it a few times when i was on a remote computer w/out Revit installed and not enough time to download a copy.. its possible.

[Mr Spot]

I've used a VPN numerous times and found it pretty much useless for revit. I thought that given that all that's being transfered over the net using Terminal Services is the mouse pointer movements, keyboard presses, and clicks in one direction and the image in the other it wouldn't really matter what application was running?

There seems to be some very mixed responses and i think a couple of people are confused with what terminal services or remote desktop is.

The servers we plan on using is a Dual Xeon 3.8GHz with 8 gig ram so PC specs wise i'd imagine we should be fine...

[Chirag Mistry]

Dont know if it helps but I have worked with 3D MAX files 75mb in size over remote desktop via cable (internet) speed say around 3.0 mbps. It worked great, the screen refresh rate was little slower

[iru69]

I thought that given that all that's being transfered over the net using Terminal Services is the mouse pointer movements, keyboard presses, and clicks in one direction and the image in the other it wouldn't really matter what application was running?
My impression is that it's going to be largely dependent on the connection speed from the client to the server.

On a 100mb connection, Remote Desktop is very impressive (I don't have any experience with Terminal Services specifically, but I've tried running Revit through an RD connection here in the office).

The thousand dollar question is whether a 3mb connection is going to be enough and whether the lag in response time is going to drive you nuts. Due to our amateur network setup here at the office, I'd have a hard time getting an RD connection from home to test that out - but I'd be very curious to know the answer as well.

Edit: Spot, do you have the network setup to allow you to test a RD connection from home to your office computer?

[Mr Spot]

We do currently, but the server isn't really up to scratch yet. we plan on spending $30K on a new server upgrade very shortly.

[Teresa.Martin]

I know Autodesk specifically forbids the use of terminal services for Autocad based verticals. I am not 100% sure that this is not the case for Revit as well. I would assume that it is until told otherwise...Besides speed issues, connectivity, yada..yada..
Teresa Martin
Ideate Inc

[janunson]

I know Autodesk specifically forbids the use of terminal services for Autocad based verticals. I am not 100% sure that this is not the case for Revit as well. I would assume that it is until told otherwise...Besides speed issues, connectivity, yada..yada..
Teresa Martin
Ideate IncForbids??!
Are you talking about licensing? or just that it's unsupported? I've pestered ADSK a lot about this lately and they've said it's unsupported, but never mentioned any licensing trouble with it...
BTW - VPN connections for pulling licensing and borrowing objects, seams to work fine - but we've encountered a lot of trouble with a Save To Central over VPN. - related discussion - http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?p=562331#post562331

[Danny Polkinhorn]

We've been successful with Remote Desktop over VPN and very successful with GoToMyPc (http://www.gotomypc.com/) corporate edition (no VPN needed).

Hope that helps,

[Mr Spot]

We've been successful with Remote Desktop over VPN and very successful with GoToMyPc (http://www.gotomypc.com/) corporate edition (no VPN needed).

Hope that helps,
Likewise, remote desktop works great for working from home provided theres a vacant computer in the office. If you're working remotely this would be the best solution.

[Teresa.Martin]

Forbids??!
Are you talking about licensing? or just that it's unsupported? I've pestered ADSK a lot about this lately and they've said it's unsupported, but never mentioned any licensing trouble with it...
BTW - VPN connections for pulling licensing and borrowing objects, seams to work fine - but we've encountered a lot of trouble with a Save To Central over VPN. - related discussion - http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?p=562331#post562331

I believe that licensing is the issue. If you think about it, it is like everyone hooked into one big mainframe with one copy of Revit. Everyone could log in and use the same piece of software. Since everyone is using the same copy, you could have endless use of one license. I believe it is a license issue. I would check with them before proceeding in any case. There is a white paper out about this from Autodesk. I will have to see if I can hunt it down. Better yet, for anyone from Autodesk patrolling the boards, can we get a complete and succinct answer?
Teresa Martin
Best regards,
Teresa Martin
Ideate Inc

[Mr Spot]

I believe that licensing is the issue. If you think about it, it is like everyone hooked into one big mainframe with one copy of Revit. Everyone could log in and use the same piece of software. Since everyone is using the same copy, you could have endless use of one license. I believe it is a license issue. I would check with them before proceeding in any case. There is a white paper out about this from Autodesk. I will have to see if I can hunt it down. Better yet, for anyone from Autodesk patrolling the boards, can we get a complete and succinct answer?
Teresa Martin
Best regards,
Teresa Martin
Ideate Inc
I don't think its like that...

The licence can still only permit one user at a time, and given the company owns the licence why wouldn't they be free to use it as they please providing they don't use more licences than they are entitled to...

[janunson]

I believe that licensing is the issue. If you think about it, it is like everyone hooked into one big mainframe with one copy of Revit. Everyone could log in and use the same piece of software. Since everyone is using the same copy, you could have endless use of one license. I believe it is a license issue. I would check with them before proceeding in any case. There is a white paper out about this from Autodesk. I will have to see if I can hunt it down. Better yet, for anyone from Autodesk patrolling the boards, can we get a complete and succinct answer?
Teresa Martin
Best regards,
Teresa Martin
Ideate IncI see - you're talking about a true terminal server approach... where multiple people use the same copy of Revit with the same license in different sessions on the same server...

I don't think this would be a problem provided you have enough licenses to cover the users... I don't know if different users on the same computer pull a different license from FlexLM, but i think so, so it should work fine. If not, there'd be an honesty issue i suppose.

I was thinking of people terminalling into their own computers from a remote location and running the local copy of revit they have installed. This wouldn't have the same issues, since each user has a copy on a separate computer.