Creating New Standards.... could use some ideas

[eleonard]

Good afternoon,
I am looking into proposing some new company CAD Standards in our office. Our previous CAD Manager, I guess you could call him, has retired after 50 years on the job. Needless to say that some of the standards that are actually still in place date back about that far, IMHO.
I work for a civil engineering firm, and I am trying to get some of the older cad users to realize that the software can function on a whole new level that they never realized.
In doing this I know that I am going to meet with plenty of resistance and I am hoping that I am ready to answer all the questions and concerns that it presents.

Some of the things I am looking at doing is xrefing title blocks that contain the same information through the whole set of plans. Are there many pro's and con's to this?

I am also thinking of implimenting the Standards tools that are now availible in AutoCAD.

The other problem that we have now is the misuse and non-use of paper space/ model space. How do i convince the older Cad users to see that utilizing paper/model space is a must. And by placing title blocks at a 1:1 scale and using page setups our department will decrease time in production and confusion when plotting?

I am also wondering what other things work for other firms and any suggestions would be helpful.

Emily

[madcadder]

Automate, Automate. Automate!
Automate as much as possible. Make a lisp that place dimensions on the right layer before drawing the dimension. Make a lisp that disables plot if tilemode is "1".
Do you have a Template already for layers, text styles, dimstyles, scales, etc.?

The easiest way to get them to do what is needed is to take away their ability to do it wrong.

[jaberwok]

For starters, prove to them that using pspace/mspace will make their lives easier.

[BrenBren]

Good afternoon,
I am looking into proposing some new company CAD Standards in our office. Our previous CAD Manager, I guess you could call him, has retired after 50 years on the job. Needless to say that some of the standards that are actually still in place date back about that far, IMHO.
I work for a civil engineering firm, and I am trying to get some of the older cad users to realize that the software can function on a whole new level that they never realized.
In doing this I know that I am going to meet with plenty of resistance and I am hoping that I am ready to answer all the questions and concerns that it presents.

Some of the things I am looking at doing is xrefing title blocks that contain the same information through the whole set of plans. Are there many pro's and con's to this?

I am also thinking of implimenting the Standards tools that are now availible in AutoCAD.

The other problem that we have now is the misuse and non-use of paper space/ model space. How do i convince the older Cad users to see that utilizing paper/model space is a must. And by placing title blocks at a 1:1 scale and using page setups our department will decrease time in production and confusion when plotting?

I am also wondering what other things work for other firms and any suggestions would be helpful.

Emily

You can search (http://forums.augi.com/search.php?) for this oft talked about topic here in the forums. Also, take a look at the very bottom of this thread for some similar threads that may lead you to some good information.

[de-co1]

The easiest way to get them to do what is needed is to take away their ability to do it wrong.

And once this is done, then comes the discipline - where you ensure they keep doing what you want, and that they do not attempt to revert back to old ways, bearing in mind that you may need to spend a lot of time teaching people how to do new things, and then sitting trying to correct drawings that have gone wrong.

I would like to be able to take away users' abilities to do things, but if you do not have the complete knowledge to do this, and successfully (as is the case with me), then you will run into problems down the line where people do indeed start challenging you, or alternatively, try change protocols to suit themselves without your knowledge.


Make a lisp that place dimensions on the right layer before drawing the dimension.

Unfortunately I'm not as advanced as this either, and realise I need to take a serious look at writing lisps - I have seen the light with using lisps...

[charlie.bauer341340]

Emily
I don't envy your position. The use of xrefs is a good idea, the reasoning is that repetitive information can be entered in one place and be repeated in each drawing. This will reduce the chances of errors. If you have 2006 you can use fields to further reduce the chances of errors.

As far as using paper/model space, one justification for that is that all drawing is done real size no need to scale anything. Scale can be determined after the drawing is done. By using paper/model space you can eliminate errors in scaling.

Lisp routines can set options and eliminate errors, but are useless if your people won't use them. It is easier to do it the old way than taking the time to learn a new way and who has the time to learn something new. You will have to demonstrate that the new way is faster and reduces the opportunities for errors.

It appears that the running theme here is the reduction of errors, as professionals reduction of errors should be the goal of all of us. A perfect drawing is something to behold, show them that your changes would bring them closer to that elusive thing "the perfect drawing the first time".

Lots of luck

Charlie

[eleonard]

Thanks for the feed back. I have been jotting things down for some time now. I am not the CAD Manager, I am i guess the assistant Cad Manger. I still have lots of questions to ask managment, mainly because I was told I was in charge of standards.... but who knows in the company what is really going on.
I have writting some lisp that simply makes my job quicker, I have trained the new CAD person to use them.
I have looked in to pointing all search paths to the network so that things are in one place only. I have been personally testing some of these things out prior to proposing the switch. I know it will be a very painful thing for some, but my goal is to make it so that who ever opens up a drawing will understand the layering and it looks as though that individual worked on the project themself.

The hardest part for me is probably going to be getting this up and going ASAP. We have people here that don't move very fast when it comes to changing things. And we have lots of people who have done the same thing for years and claim it works so why change it. I have high hopes for helping the company keep up with technology and teaching them what could help with productivity and why standards are so important.
Again thans for your imput!!

Em

[madcadder]

I would like to be able to take away users' abilities to do things, but if you do not have the complete knowledge to do this, and successfully (as is the case with me), then you will run into problems down the line where people do indeed start challenging you, or alternatively, try change protocols to suit themselves without your knowledge...
...Unfortunately I'm not as advanced as this either, and realise I need to take a serious look at writing lisps - I have seen the light with using lisps... This is not the best written program, but it does what it needs to do. Here you go. Pick it apart, mod to fit your needs. Make it better.
It is a menu, lisp that must be loaded, and BMP files.


Lisp routines can set options and eliminate errors, but are useless if your people won't use them. It is easier to do it the old way than taking the time to learn a new way and who has the time to learn something new. You will have to demonstrate that the new way is faster and reduces the opportunities for errors. The attached lisp/toolbar is my prime example. All they see is that they need to place a dimension. What is nice is it layers for you.

You can do the same thing with other lisps and/or toolbars. Need to do a centerline on a drainage layer at a set scale and a different color than the layer? Xline on the G-ANNO-NPLT layer? Hatch patterns placed on a texture layer at a certain scale. Toggle a layer or group of layers ON/OFF. How about taking a viewport and setting all the layers that are need for that view with one click. You automate them to save them time and you can make them do it correctly in the same breath.

Please don't take me as having anything close to a harsh tone. All this is just examples that I have used in the past to speed up the daily grind and in the process it makes to process a little more "fool-proof".

[LanceMcHatton]

The best and only piece of advice I will offer is this: If you present them with ALL the new procedures at the same time, you will be challenged, resented, and disrespected. Once that happens, you will lose confidence, your supervisor(s) will have a negative impression of the whole thing, and it will take forever to convert everyone to the new methods. Present ideas and methods slowly, one at a time, fully explain each aspect of it and gain understanding, acceptance, and support for each new method/procedure. Make sure you listen to, address, and respond to each grievance. Each time you present something new, it will be just a little bit easier for others to accept.

[kkendrick]

I have a similar issue as Emily. I have been given the monumental task of setting the CAD standards for my company. We have a whole lot of ctb files that are adjusted without people people knowing. How do we control this and adjust for the future?

I also have another concern about the paper space-model space issue. By and large, the people here have grasped the concept of using paper space for title-blocks and model space to draw. The issue of the text management in paper space is where I am confused. I work in the municipal area and consequently each drawing has multiple layouts for each aspect of the work. Sewage, stormwater, roads, curbs, grading, legal... the list goes on... have their own layout. Now, all these items within the layouts need to have descriptors. I need opinions on if they should be in model space or paper space, or if there is a method I am not aware. Some of these descriptors require elevations and coordinates and some of them are attributed blocks giving various information.

[Mike.Perry]

Hi

I have a similar issue as Emily. I have been given the monumental task of setting the CAD standards for my company. We have a whole lot of ctb files that are adjusted without people people knowing. How do we control this and adjust for the future?Take a look at these threads...

page setup (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=4773)

AutoCAD 2004 Support Files (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=4379)

PROJECTNAME Variable dilemma (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=9470) (especially take note of all! the links within this thread).



I also have another concern about the paper space-model space issue. By and large, the people here have grasped the concept of using paper space for title-blocks and model space to draw. The issue of the text management in paper space is where I am confused. I work in the municipal area and consequently each drawing has multiple layouts for each aspect of the work. Sewage, stormwater, roads, curbs, grading, legal... the list goes on... have their own layout. Now, all these items within the layouts need to have descriptors. I need opinions on if they should be in model space or paper space, or if there is a method I am not aware. Some of these descriptors require elevations and coordinates and some of them are attributed blocks giving various information.Take a look at these threads...

Dimension in paper space or model? (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=4741)

Dimensions in Model or Paper ? (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=4397)

Paperspace viewports? 1:1 or 1/dwg scale (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=17607)

Have a good one, Mike

[jmcintyre]

Automation is the key to implementing new CAD standards, but remember what is easy for you may not seem easy for the entrenched staff. Using lisp is fine, but make sure they're readily available and easy to use. The tool palette is a perfect place for this and we have created tools which automate the most frequently used tools, placing text, symbols, call outs, title blocks etc. The tools automatically place the objects on the right layer, at the right scale so using them is quicker and easier than the 'old' way.

[de-co1]

This is not the best written program, but it does what it needs to do. Here you go. Pick it apart, mod to fit your needs. Make it better.
It is a menu, lisp that must be loaded, and BMP files.

Thanks for that.I have just come from a four year battle of upgrading an ACAD 14 based company to ACAD 2005, new servers, back-up systems, and setting up a new CAD protocol. And I started recently in a company with ACAD LT 2000, a very poor CAD standards set-up, and what I can gather, an outdated server and back-up system.

Fortunately, this is not going to be my battle, but I do battle with the archaic(ness) of the whole thing, and as such cannot use your lisp file.... aaaarrrgghh...

Nonetheless, I have kept a copy and hope it will come in handy in future - and I do agree that the use of lisps creates efficiency.




Present ideas and methods slowly, one at a time, fully explain each aspect of it and gain understanding, acceptance, and support for each new method/procedure. Make sure you listen to, address, and respond to each grievance

I agree. I was fortunate that my old co. was a small practice of around 10 people. As there are always several different ways to do the same thing, I would do my best to get my head around them all, and them offer the better options up for discussion, whereby we would come to some mutual agreement as to which path to follow - and that way, they did tend to stick to the 'new way' more easily.

[simon_t_hall]

Another good way is to get all the users to meet to discuss planned changes, If people feel they are involved they are less likely to reject completely the ideas.

Automating where possible with Lisp is helpful to keep thing moving in the right direction.

[amy.stuart]

I did this EXACT topic 9 months ago in my company. And my biggest sell was to show them how they could utilize Page Setups to print multiple drawings at once BUT they had to use Paper Space. That was my biggest sale. Of course there was still resistance. And i had to continue to pusht those high points. Such as using paper space would make a need for 1 dimension style in reality. And with the Tool Palettes I could load a custom Dim command so that it always showed up on the correct layer, all they had to do was learn to put it in Model Space through the viewport.

So my suggestion is to find the HIGH points that will show immediate increase in productivity. After that just keep enforcing it and make sure you have your facts straight... if i hestitiated at all on facts about how things could increase productivity they ate me alive!!! Drafters become vultures when you are messing with their systems.... No matter how old their systems are.

[glee.94356]

CAD management is not an easy task, especially when you are taking over from somebody else. Has the office already developed respect for your CAD abilities?
If so, then it makes your tasks easier. I agree that too many new ideas all at once just means getting shot down all at once. Introduce your ideas one at a time and do it by winning over key individuals one by one before you broach it to everyone in the office. That way you will find support.
It applies to everything you are trying to implement. Be it paper space versus modelspace. Everyone here knows the benefits of it. It also helps if the CAD manager has some power. At my last firm, I was the CAD manager, responsible for documentation standards and an associate with full backing from the partners. So if something needed to be done, it could be done. Win over your partners to your way of doing things. If you can show them that they will save time and money (the money being key here), you will have converts on your hand who will back you up.
Then automate, automate automate. Yup, best way to get people to do things if it's all centrally controlled from the server and everyone has the same template, sheet files, layers etc. Create your own menu bar for your sheets, symbols etc.
I only know enough to modify autolisp and get my stuff working. I don't know visual basic or any of the new customization tools. See, it doesn't take much to become a dinosaur in this profession.
Good luck

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Gerard Lee Architects
http:www.gleearchitects.com
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