Good EIFS systems anyone?

[Wes Macaulay]

I need a bombproof EIFS / rainscreen system for a tower I'm working on. Sto is the first company that comes to mind (would it be fair to say it's a Cadillac product?) but I was wondering if you folks have some other products that we might consider for this application.

We've got other in the area -- like Imasco, which always seemed second-rate compared to Sto. We're looking for the best stuff here -- something that will resist soiling, not fade, and keep the water out... a tough task given Vancouver's weather!

Cheers

[aaronrumple]

Sto and Dryvit are the two biggies. Regardless of the EFIS system the trick is getting the contractor to follow the details and install properly.

In this area we have good plastering trades so often we do a hybrid system. Scratch/Brown of traditional plaster over metal lath and then finish with a Sto finish coat. One of my buildings just down the road a bit is 20 years now with no maintenance on the finish and no cracks. Could use a good power washing, but otherwise in great shape.

What did you mean by "rainscreeen"?

[Wes Macaulay]

What did you mean by "rainscreeen"?Thanks a bunch Aaron... good to hear that. As for rainscreens, out here on the wet coast the stucco can be soaked for several days at a time since it can literally rain for days during the winter. (And our real estate is the most costly in Canada. WTF?)

I'm sure you use this system as well but under a different name... what we call pressure-equalized rainscreen is where the finish is set off from the building leaving a small (usually no more than 1") air space behind. This cavity is vented to the exterior, allowing inborne wind to pressurize the cavity so that water is forced away from the building.

The air cavities are compartmentalised to ensure that each cavity pressurizes quickly under wind loads to prevent water from getting onto the moisture barrier on the interior side of the cavity.

The Feds have a nice PDF on this system... which I'm attaching.

I do hate that stucco gets grimy over the years -- faster than metal panel, even if it provides better thermal performance.

[richardtt33978]

I have to agree with the comment that the contractor must follow the details for a good installation. I would only add that any EIFS system you use should have a drainage board system behind the insulation as a backup. And be sure to use EIFS tape (self-sealing) @ horizontal application .... andit might be overkill ... but I would add the EIFS tape @ all joints .... where the vetical face turns @ 90 degrees in any direction....

Sorry I don't have a preferred manufacturer....
Hope my little 2 cents helps.
Later.

[Dimitri Harvalias]

Hi Wes,

Two words for you as far as using ANY stucco system in the Lower Mainland...
False economy!
By the time you get the the point where you are providing a system that is as good as it gets (it will never be bulletproof or waterproof for that matter) you have a skin that can get so complex in detail that it ends up costing as much as some middle quality metal cladding systems. In the end you are still left with a face sealed system on top of bead board that is essentially a sponge and a surface finish that gets really grungy looking in very short order.
I'd strongly caution against using stucco on any sort of tower.
In the immortal words of King Arthur in Monty Python and The Holy Grail... Run away!

If you buy me a beer after work one day I'll tell you what I really think ;-)

[Wes Macaulay]

Heh heh... I was hoping you'd throw your comments in (I was gonna call you but I didn't want to interrupt your golf game :razz: )

I've used Sto rainscreen systems on some projects. Sto only allows certified installers to put on their project so it was still about 50% of the cost of Alucobond. I drive by the project once in a while and it looks great, but I wondered if there was something cheaper. Locally there's Preswitt (ugh) and Imasco, but projects with their products don't look so hot after a decade.

[aaronrumple]

How about EFIS over masonry - another common application in our area. The EFIS is used for appearance - the masonry for performance.

[BWG]

Have you looked into a one coat stucco system (3/8" thick elastromeric).

http://www.nocsa.org/gallery.htm

[d.stairmand]

In New Zealand (South Pacific Ocean Next To Australia) one of the most Common Cavity Based EIFS Systems is Nuplex'es Insulclad
www.plastersystems.co.nz
6mm Plaster on 40/60mm EIFS & 20mm EIFS Cavity Batten
Site Supplies full Details of System

I Dont Know if there is a Canadian Arm to the Company

[Les Therrien]

How about EFIS over masonry - another common application in our area. The EFIS is used for appearance - the masonry for performance.

We do that a lot for retrofit situations, but the economics are bad if it's a new project!

[m_cahoon14336]

I try to encourage clients NOT to use EIFS. In our area, EIFS costs as much as masonry veneer. Some insurance companies are reluctant to insure structures with EIFS. Structures with EIFS appraise for less than masonry veneer structures. Any time you use EIFS, there is always the concern of moisture getting into the wall cavity and the growth of mold. At least with masonry veneer you have an air space and drainage weeps. Last year we worked with a client to take the EIFS off their existing home, and go back with masonry veneer. If we have to use EIFS, we spec. and detail around their "drainage-management" system using an expanded vinyl mat and vinyl trim with drainage weeps. It's important to start with a heavy buidling felt layered over the sheathing. I would never wrap a parapet with EIFS. It's safer to use a pre-finished metal cap.

[Wes Macaulay]

I wish we were using metal panel but I just don't think it's going to happen -- too expensive, and not a whole lot of insulative value. It's going to be suspended slab with concrete columns / shear walls, and we'd like some good thermal performance. At 16 storeys I don't think masonry veneer is going to happen either.

We are looking at panelised walls from a shop that uses Sto systems stucco. The Sto system has a very minor (1/8 to 3/16") space behind the foam for the air cavity, and they provide a fairly bombproof membrane for the sheathing. The idea being that the walls would be flown into place by crane on site. We'd have areas of window wall, and the prefab walls would terminate against the window wall -- those connections will require a lot of thought.

[T_Livingston]

Hi Wes,

Without getting into a sales pitch, you might look into www.stonepanels.com and www.stonepanelstests.com in your search. They have allot of what you are looking for. They even have Revit content up at SEEK.
Just sayin...
Tim

[dbaldacchino]

Thanks for the link Tim. I don't have experience with this product but it seems very similar to ACM (there are some ACM manufacturers that use similar honeycomb backing too). We might get some pricing from these guys, which are just north of where we are in TX. I used to pass through Coppell on my way to work back in early 2000 :)